US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

I don't remember being asked to weigh in on a grievance before. What IS an effective union anyway? I used to go to MEC meetings when we had ALPA. I didn't see much except arguing there either.

I honestly don't think there is any such thing as an effective union. You could turn this whole thing back over to ALPA tomorrow and it would be the same problems and the same players.

How come you guys could turn out in mass to be part of a grievance [size="6"[size="2"]]but you claim you can't organize a group to explore solutions to our current dilemma?[/size]
[/size]
Driver B)

Because they don't want to be anything other than victims........

 

[700UW]

Last time I checked Eastern is out of business as is Western.

 

[nic4us]

There's a PID and a fleet snapshot date in the Delta award. They're different dates, and the justification is in the text of the award. I read the Nicolau decision when it came out, but I would have read it again to refresh my memory.

I tried to explain this to Pi before, and I thought he accepted the explanation I had given.

The PID is the last known quantity pre-merger of the individuals position and status within the ranks of their respective list. i.e. where was everybody stand alone sans-merger.

The fleet snapshot used in the Nic is post merger and gives insight into how the merger effects the combining of two list. In our case using the post merger fleet snapshot, Brucia dissents over one issue and says the pilots already recalled should be given some consideration, and Nic and the other pilot nuetral say, no that only proves the West pilot's position that the east had more to gain from the merger, and we now know that to be true because we have something to measure post merger.

 

[cleardirect]

That 1800 number is a bit misleading, so your math is off. my fault. I don't have time to explain now...gotta head to work. I have never been furloughed and the only reserve time I have done is 2 months when I first came over to the 76....in my 25 yrs. The 1800 is the difference between where the NIC puts me as opposed to where DOH puts me...not just str8 west pilots above me.

So you tried to mislead everyone? You overstated the "damage" that Nicolau did to you? There were only 1800 west pilots to start. So the only way that you would have a difference of 1800 is if you were furloughed.

I you are to be believed (you have proven yourself to misstate) you have 25 years. It seems that everyone I talk to from the east has 25 years. Must have been a big year for hiring. That means you had 19 years at the time of the merger. Given your history of fibbing I also checked 18 years.

If you had 19 years you would go from having 146 west pilots senior to you to having 1162 on the Nicolau. A difference of 1016 not the 1800 you whine about.

If you exaggerated and only had 18 years you would go from having 280 west pilot senior to you to having 1548 on the Nicolau. A difference of 1268. Again not the 1800 that you claim your damage to be.

Looking at those same west pilots.

He would go from 3154 on the Nicolau to 4960 on the DOH list. That means an additional 1806 east pilots. 463 were furloughed at the merger.

The other guys I compared would go from 4050 on the Nicolau to 6279. A difference of 2229 east pilots. 1680 furloughed pilots.

So it is the west pilots that will lose the 1800 spots not you. Now if you were concerned about 1800 and thought it was unfair to you. Do you consider a west pilot losing 1800 spots or more unfair by DOH?

BTW just going from LOS to DOH it cost him 280 spots. Sop much for the argument how long you been here matters. you guys want to take credit for time off the property.

So you see the west has much more to lose with DOH than you guys do with the Nicolau. Man up live up to your agreements and stop trying to steal what does not belong to you.

 

[A320 Driver]

Because they don't want to be anything other than victims........

Ask a legitimate question and all you hear is crickets...

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Ask a legitimate question and all you hear is crickets...

He's crazy so he's ignored.

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Last time I checked Eastern is out of business as is Western.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, let him be.

The voices in his head are keeping him company.

 

[nic4us]

Ok, I will take one more stab at this....

Here is how I see this effecting each of us. If the NIC is where this all ends up....

You will gain seniority over a bunch of East pilot when you claim your "company" position. It may even buy you a Cpt seat in the 767, as an example. You have nothing to lose from the NIC example. As for me, I would watch you guys leap frog me into Cpt seats, not allowing me back in the left seat until I retire.....damaging to me. The difference between the NIC and DOH is 1800 numbers for me.

However, if DOH is the rule, you get to retain your CPT status in PHX through C&Rs......protecting you from damage to your career, while I have the ability to regain something in this screwed up career. I have no desire to come to PHX and take your job.....all I want is a chance to finish out my career while not taking anything from another pilot.

However, your post indicates that you want to take as much as you possibly can from anyone that gets in your way.....the NIC is that avenue for you.

So, if you feel that you deserve to leap frog the East pilots through the NIC.....that is greed.

breeze

Check your PMs.

I do want to reply here also for the board.

My original question was...why should the company respect a pilot group that does not respect itself?

It had nothing to do with our individual circumstances resulting from the seniority integration, and had more to do with the complete lack of respect the east employees have shown toward America West Airlines and the West employees.

Neither side respects the other, and as a result, "the company" is left in a position where it has to put out the daily, weekly, monthly fires that erupt between the warring factions, rather than doing the normal bussiness of working through negotiations towards mutually acceptable solutions.

 

[Claxon]

He's crazy so he's ignored.

He was referring to you. Did you get enough sleep today, the knife is a little dull.

 

[nic4us]

Please explain to me how the West pilots got screwed on this deal other than the fact that your reps weren't present. I watched the crew news from PHX. Looks like the same outcome either way. So what is the big deal other than you got your feelings hurt?


Driver B)

Your question is vague.

How we got screwed by the DLT grievence being dropped? We have a legitimate grievence, it was dropped, because usapa does not give a ####, and would like to see the West pilots take one in the shorts paywise.

How we got screwed by the hotel grievence? I do not know what it was even about, but the fact that an inconsequential grievence that usapa lost anyway gummed up the grievence process for a year, when there are over 500 waiting to be heard says a lot.

The big deal is that usapa is in violation of their DFR to the West pilots. The big deal is that Parella refuses to forward West grievences. The big deal is that the West pilots are being harmed.

The biggest deal is that the West has still not been paid for the min block hour grievence that we won 2 years ago, and rather than pushing that, the usapa scumbags are out there losing hotel grievences?????

I could type all day with why these are big deals, but now return you to the sound of crickets.........

 

[NoYellowNeck]

He was referring to you. Did you get enough sleep today, the knife is a little dull.

Is that you talking Mr. Western/Eastern or the voice in your head?

 

[Claxon]

He's crazy so he's ignored.

Numbnutz. He was directing the question to you. He was asking how you western idiots claim to have no collective power to respond to any negotiating interest you might have, claiming you are neutered by USAPA, but yet you can address other situations when you feel you need to. Get it???

 

[Barrister]

Your question is vague.

How we got screwed by the DLT grievence being dropped? We have a legitimate grievence, it was dropped, because usapa does not give a ####, and would like to see the West pilots take one in the shorts paywise.

How we got screwed by the hotel grievence? I do not know what it was even about, but the fact that an inconsequential grievence that usapa lost anyway gummed up the grievence process for a year, when there are over 500 waiting to be heard says a lot.

The big deal is that usapa is in violation of their DFR to the West pilots. The big deal is that Parella refuses to forward West grievences. The big deal is that the West pilots are being harmed.

The biggest deal is that the West has still not been paid for the min block hour grievence that we won 2 years ago, and rather than pushing that, the usapa scumbags are out there losing hotel grievences?????

I could type all day with why these are big deals, but now return you to the sound of crickets.........

Hey moron....it was dropped because you WERE GOING TO LOOSE IT ANYWAY IN ALL PROBIBILITY
did ya miss that part. Parker was as confident of that as Isom is of the LOA 93. Arguing with you guys
is like talking to an Oak tree...except the tree is smarter!!!!!!!!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Claxon]

Last time I checked Eastern is out of business as is Western.

check the capitalization. Did you finish H.S?

 

[NoYellowNeck]

check the capitalization. Did you finish H.S?

Shush. Calm down.

Are the voices getting louder Mr. No cap western man?