US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Keroseneuser]

What did I just tell you!?!?

It's Nic and only Nic.

There is no other way.

It's over for the east. That door closed a long time ago.

Get over it.

Then I guess it's another decade of the status quo then. I will pencil in a pay raise for both sides for 2021.

Have a good evening.

 

[TheBadCat1313]

LOL, I believe Hitler made a statement close to that while sitting in his bunker with the Russians closing in from the East and the U.S. and British from the West.

Funny you should use that example. There are actually so many ways that Cleary's leadership style and personality mirrors that of Hitler, it's scary. I think in this case, the company is the Russians, Leonidas is the US and Judge Silver is the British.

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Then I guess it's another decade of the status quo then. I will pencil in a pay raise for both sides for 2021.

Have a good evening.

Yep.

LOA 93 for another decade.

Enjoy.

Good evening.

 

[luvn737s]

There is always a way. Just figure out a contract that both sides will vote for. NIC wont do it, and DOH wont do it. So sit down and figure out what will do it. 10 Year fences? 15 year? Protection of each sides retirement seat? (ie AWA guy retires AWA guy gets seat, US..US guy etc)

If you are truly committed to breaking the logjam, you should begin with a strong recall effort to remove Cleary and all of his supporters from USAPA. Then convene a constitutional congress from east and west to re-write the USAPA constitution and bylaws. Then accept that you have had the benefits of a 5 year fence already. Then accept that the new result will mirror the Nic in functionality and will not produce full protection for the east at the expense of the west.

Or save youself the effort and dump USAPA and replace it with a clean-sheet new union.

If you reject the need for such fundemental change, then maybe you still just want to see what's the least you can do to slip one past the west.

 

[prechilill]

If you are truly committed to breaking the logjam, you should begin with a strong recall effort to remove Cleary and all of his supporters from USAPA. Then convene a constitutional congress from east and west to re-write the USAPA constitution and bylaws. Then accept that you have had the benefits of a 5 year fence already. Then accept that the new result will mirror the Nic in functionality and will not produce full protection for the east at the expense of the west.

Or save youself the effort and dump USAPA and replace it with a clean-sheet new union.

If you reject the need for such fundemental change, then maybe you still just want to see what's the least you can do to slip one past the west.

Right on brother. The east wants the whole world to do everything for them- they can't take anything for action and Keroseneburner is just another example of that mentality. Amazing.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Right on brother. The east wants the whole world to do everything for them- they can't take anything for action and Keroseneburner is just another example of that mentality. Amazing.

The entitlement east! "You owe us!!!!" is their mantra. Not sure how AWA owes them anything. And, the Hitler reference...Godwin's Law... The same old BS from the east.

As to the call to "start over", OK, what if we start over and have to go to Binding Arbitration, will the East really stick with the results? Survey say: No, unless its something they agree with.

 

[prechilill]

As to the call to "start over", OK, what if we start over and have to go to Binding Arbitration, will the East really stick with the results? Survey say: No, unless its something they agree with.

And if they get the result they like Kleary would declare the result binding and call for unity with the west (as they peel us off the bottom of their shoe) and to move forward together...
Narcissism in vivo

 

[luvn737s]

I disagree. The very unity that would vote USAPA out would threaten the likes of Cleary. Without the desire to unite under a slotted seniority integration that acknowledges the position of each pilot as of the PID, and is effectively the equivalent of Nicolau, USAPA will remain in power. But if the east pilots who are realistic, rational and ready to remove Cleary and his cadre from power, step up and participate in the card drive necessary to do so, I think you will see a new era of cooperation from both east and west. The desire to seek further litigation and damages will subside in exchange for a more peaceful and unified work environment.

Trust will only come from the display of positive actions, some of which may be sacrificial. This crucual foundation must not be skimped on, but without it USAPA retains it's power due solely to inertia.

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways Express ALPA Trans States Pilots Ratify New Contract

Back of The Trip Sheet Update: August 12, 2011: ALPA's Trans States Pilots recently ratified a new contract that provides its members pay and benefit increases. As RJ pilots narrow the distance or surpass US Airways' pilots in pay and benefits has the time come to elect a national, major airline pilot union that has a long history of success?

See Story

Recent Back of The Trip Sheet Updates

Site

Fraternally,

webadmin@unbiasedfacts.org

 

[USA320Pilot]

I just read USAPA's Brief in Support of the Associations's Motion to Dismiss US Airways' (TRO/Preliminary Injunction) Complaint. This 86-page document is attempting to have the hearing(s) venue changed from Federal Court in Charlotte to New York City and is mostly made of accusations versus facts.

It is now abundantly clear that USAPA has taken an "all in" posture and is trying to paint US Airways as an unsafe airline, which could drive revenue away from our company. In my opinion USAPA cannot win this fight because they have alienated the FAA, IATA, US Airways management, and now the other labor groups, which is unprecedented. Using a slowdown under the guise of safety to gain contract language violates ALPA's Code of Ethics; and I believe should violate the code of ethics of every pilot.

USAPA has filed lawsuits without BPR approval, hired expensive law firms without BPR knowledge, may be using PIC money to fund the investigation, which is illegal, and is spending money it does not have in this "all in" fight that I believe threatens the existence of the union and US Airways pilot representation. USAPA is spending more money than it is taking in for dues. The union's budget has a $250,000 FY deficit, USAPA spent over $150,000 on the unbudgeted USA Today add, Mike Cleary unilaterally increased the NAC's FPL spending by over $175,000 per year when he added two line pilots (Pat Day and Manny Lopez, who have never negotiated a contract before and are untrained, two join our two rookie negotiators) to the NAC, and now we have multiple law firms representing USAPA in the DJ lawsuit, Status Quo Lawsuit, Preliminary Injunction, Permanent Injunction, and now the Temporary Restraining Order cases.

In conclusion, USAPA is fighting a battle it cannot win. Many pilots believe that they cannot get fired, they have immunity, and union protection. But, that is not the case. If a pilot receives a termination letter the Police, the District Attorney, and the Judge are all employed by the Company. If a pilot is terminated he or she should expect to go to the end of the appeal process, which is a System Board Hearing. The System Board Hearing can take 12 to 18 months to complete like it did with Jim Langenhan and during that time the pilot does not receive pay or benefits. US Airways has this tool to deal with USAPA regardless of the Court's decision. If the TRO goes against US Airways I believe management has enough information on individual pilots to terminate a significant number, this will reverberate through the pilot group, which will then cause the line pilots to stop thier alleged slowing down.

With US Airways's focus on costs the "executive suite" did not recently increase East Coast based Chief Pilot Staffing by 30% or 7 to 10 pilots if it was not serious about pilot discipline to help stop the alleged illegal job action.

Today, could be a defining moment in our career that could have worse ramifications for East Coast-based pilots than losing the DB Plan, LOA 93, and the Nicolau Award.

 

[767jetz]

LOL!!!! I knew it!!!

Nic or nothing. Pure, unmodified, in your face, NIC. This really funny how this keeps going in circles. Like I said, this place will never be whole.

That is quite enough for a few days.


Driver B)

I can't believe how some of you are beside yourselves that the west is insisting on NIC or nothing after everything you have done to them. 🙄 No one can blame them.

You guys have done everything in your power to shove DOH down their throats, and when none of it panned out, you now cry a river and think they should give you a break.

So let's get this straight...

You pursued DOH all the way through negotiation, mediation, arbitration. Your elected (toxic) MEC tied your hands and tried to recall anyone who disagreed with their agenda. When that didn't work you tired to get ALPA national to step in. No joy there, so you elected a new CBA with the promise (lie) of DOH and a contract in 90 days. Years have gone by with nothing but delay accomplished. During that time, USAPA has threatened termination for west pilots not wanting to pay the extortion, trumped up RICO charges that were never proven, more trumped up allegations of identity theft which were also not proven, and single carrier status that took away any west representation to even negotiate with, while also finding every reason imaginable to keep them out of the loop in your new "union." Not to mention, closing contract negotiations that were 75% done on the west, stonewalling all west grievances, and spending their dues money on ill conceived ideas like ads in major newspapers and a "safety campaign that has subjected the west to an injunction along with the rest of you.

And you think they should now throw you a bone a modify the NIC simply because you have failed to do it through force. OK. Riiiiiiight.

 

[BoeingBoy]

There is always a way. Just figure out a contract that both sides will vote for.

You're right - there is always a way. USAPA could come up with a seniority integration method that was seen as fair by both sides without it being the Nic, just as the 9th said, but that would take either a drastic change of course or putting different people in control (officers and BPR). I see absolutely no indication that the current USAPA leadership will change it's ways.

Of course, Silver could eventually rule that the company's only way to escape legal liability is to use the Nic and have that upheld by the 9th. Then it would become Nic or nothing situation.

Jim

 

[fodase]

I hear the TRO was denied today in clt, easties can't be beat.

 

[ROACLT]

I hear the TRO was denied today in clt, easties can't be beat.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/08/12/2523058/judge-no-temporary-order-against.html

 

[SparrowHawk]

I hear the TRO was denied today in clt, easties can't be beat.

Denied but not dismissed! I wouldn't chill the bubbly just yet.