US Pilots Labor Discussion

[NoYellowNeck]

Again, the TRO wasnt denied. I can keep repeating this as long as you want.

Here's a bit more on TROs from a buddy of mine. Please read this slowly if you have to.

The TRO is designed to prevent an immediate harm that could/would cause unacceptable harm/injury(ie.  a domestic violence situation where the aggressor is very likely to continue aggression and there needs to be a legal way the prevent it rather than having to wait for more harm/injury to be commited before an arrest could be made).

In this case the difference between having a TRO in place versus a permanent injunction in one week will not likely result in an irreparable harm/injury to the company.  The proposed harm is only monetary and could easily be adjudicated in the future with assessed damages.

Since the injunction schedule was moved up and there isn't an exigent circumstance requiring a TRO, I'm not suprised the court didn't see the need.  The court did see a need to expedite the injunction proceedings, however, which is more important and more telling as to the way the court sees the situation.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Again, the TRO wasnt denied. I can keep repeating this as long as you want.

Here's a bit more on TROs from a buddy of mine. Please read this slowly if you have to.

The TRO is designed to prevent an immediate harm that could/would cause unacceptable harm/injury(ie.  a domestic violence situation where the aggressor is very likely to continue aggression and there needs to be a legal way the prevent it rather than having to wait for more harm/injury to be commited before an arrest could be made).

In this case the difference between having a TRO in place versus a permanent injunction in one week will not likely result in an irreparable harm/injury to the company.  The proposed harm is only monetary and could easily be adjudicated in the future with assessed damages.

Since the injunction schedule was moved up and there isn't an exigent circumstance requiring a TRO, I'm not suprised the court didn't see the need.  The court did see a need to expedite the injunction proceedings, however, which is more important and more telling as to the way the court sees the situation.

Two Newspaper accounts stated:

from noted Travel Writer Susan Carey

By SUSAN CAREY

US Airways Group Inc., which sued its pilots union late last month in connection with an alleged illegal job action, didn't receive the temporary restraining order it hoped for Friday from a federal judge in Charlotte, N.C.

From the CLT Observer

A federal judge decided not to rule Friday on a petition for a temporary restraining order against the US Airline Pilots Association, the pilot union for Tempe, Ariz.-based US Airways.

Deciding not to rule means there is no TRO as in Denied!!!!

de·ny (d-n)
tr.v. de·nied, de·ny·ing, de·nies
1. To declare untrue; contradict.
2. To refuse to believe; reject.
3. To refuse to recognize or acknowledge; disavow.

In legal terms you're correct as there was no formal ruling, merely an expedited hearing date on the request for injunctive relief. Expediting the process was likely a time/schedule issue more then it was the merits of either sides case. I gave up trying to read judicial tea leaves many years ago and I wouldn't pretend to hazard a guess what's in the Judges mind. These things are a crap shoot, however they do make for good conversation.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Then I guess it's another decade of the status quo then. I will pencil in a pay raise for both sides for 2021.

Have a good evening.

Until then keep moving on those taxiways at a 'glacial pace' 😛

 

[LSS]

What is crystal clear to me... your blind hatred for USAPA and the East pilots speaks volumes about your willingness to ignore safety concerns, placing your crew and passengers at risk. You constantly chide and bluster about the East safety record, yet you demean them and join with the company in labeling their safety concerns and efforts an "illegal job action". I pray that your posts do not reflect the West pilots as a whole.

 

[dariencc]

. Using a slowdown under the guise of safety to gain contract language violates ALPA's Code of Ethics; and I believe should violate the code of ethics of every pilot.

Then why has Alpa done exactly that, many times, in the past? For starters, ask the next Eastern guy you fly with.

If a pilot receives a termination letter the Police, the District Attorney, and the Judge are all employed by the Company.

Once again, trying to say something profound and sounding instead like the village idiot. It's ok, we're used to it.

With US Airways's focus on costs the "executive suite" did not recently increase East Coast based Chief Pilot Staffing by 30% or 7 to 10 pilots if it was not serious about pilot discipline to help stop the alleged illegal job action.

And no doubt we can count on you to cheerlead for the company throughout the process. Of course, when you were fired for cause it was deeply unjust, right? And you deserved your fellow pilots support, right?

Today, could be a defining moment in our career that could have worse ramifications for East Coast-based pilots than losing the DB Plan, LOA 93, and the Nicolau Award.

Good grief.

 

[Code Name V]

I just read USAPA's Brief in Support of the Associations's Motion to Dismiss US Airways' (TRO/Preliminary Injunction) Complaint. This 86-page document is attempting to have the hearing(s) venue changed from Federal Court in Charlotte to New York City and is mostly made of accusations versus facts.

It is now abundantly clear that USAPA has taken an "all in" posture and is trying to paint US Airways as an unsafe airline, which could drive revenue away from our company. In my opinion USAPA cannot win this fight because they have alienated the FAA, IATA, US Airways management, and now the other labor groups, which is unprecedented. Using a slowdown under the guise of safety to gain contract language violates ALPA's Code of Ethics; and I believe should violate the code of ethics of every pilot.

USAPA has filed lawsuits without BPR approval, hired expensive law firms without BPR knowledge, may be using PIC money to fund the investigation, which is illegal, and is spending money it does not have in this "all in" fight that I believe threatens the existence of the union and US Airways pilot representation. USAPA is spending more money than it is taking in for dues. The union's budget has a $250,000 FY deficit, USAPA spent over $150,000 on the unbudgeted USA Today add, Mike Cleary unilaterally increased the NAC's FPL spending by over $175,000 per year when he added two line pilots (Pat Day and Manny Lopez, who have never negotiated a contract before and are untrained, two join our two rookie negotiators) to the NAC, and now we have multiple law firms representing USAPA in the DJ lawsuit, Status Quo Lawsuit, Preliminary Injunction, Permanent Injunction, and now the Temporary Restraining Order cases.

In conclusion, USAPA is fighting a battle it cannot win. Many pilots believe that they cannot get fired, they have immunity, and union protection. But, that is not the case. If a pilot receives a termination letter the Police, the District Attorney, and the Judge are all employed by the Company. If a pilot is terminated he or she should expect to go to the end of the appeal process, which is a System Board Hearing. The System Board Hearing can take 12 to 18 months to complete like it did with Jim Langenhan and during that time the pilot does not receive pay or benefits. US Airways has this tool to deal with USAPA regardless of the Court's decision. If the TRO goes against US Airways I believe management has enough information on individual pilots to terminate a significant number, this will reverberate through the pilot group, which will then cause the line pilots to stop thier alleged slowing down.

With US Airways's focus on costs the "executive suite" did not recently increase East Coast based Chief Pilot Staffing by 30% or 7 to 10 pilots if it was not serious about pilot discipline to help stop the alleged illegal job action.

Today, could be a defining moment in our career that could have worse ramifications for East Coast-based pilots than losing the DB Plan, LOA 93, and the Nicolau Award.

Well, there was one valid point in this post. The one that said 'IN MY OPINION'. As normal, USA320pilot has never been right so you can negate the rest of his post. Biggest dumbass in the ranks.

V

 

[Code Name V]

His track record is better than your's.

Chippy has been batting 'zero' ever since UAL. He has no credibility so I don't know what you can possibly be comparing?

V

 

[NoYellowNeck]

Two Newspaper accounts stated:

from noted Travel Writer Susan Carey

By SUSAN CAREY

US Airways Group Inc., which sued its pilots union late last month in connection with an alleged illegal job action, didn't receive the temporary restraining order it hoped for Friday from a federal judge in Charlotte, N.C.

From the CLT Observer

A federal judge decided not to rule Friday on a petition for a temporary restraining order against the US Airline Pilots Association, the pilot union for Tempe, Ariz.-based US Airways.

Deciding not to rule means there is no TRO as in Denied!!!!

de·ny (d-n)
tr.v. de·nied, de·ny·ing, de·nies
1. To declare untrue; contradict.
2. To refuse to believe; reject.
3. To refuse to recognize or acknowledge; disavow.

In legal terms you're correct as there was no formal ruling, merely an expedited hearing date on the request for injunctive relief. Expediting the process was likely a time/schedule issue more then it was the merits of either sides case. I gave up trying to read judicial tea leaves many years ago and I wouldn't pretend to hazard a guess what's in the Judges mind. These things are a crap shoot, however they do make for good conversation.

First off, you're quoting an article by a travel writer.

Second, where does the word "deny" show up in that entire article.

Third, a case isn't moved up in Federal course just for the hell of it. There has to be an underlying reason for the judge to move the case forward. If there was a time/schedule issue, the case would have been moved backward.

Just ask USAPA about their case up in NY. I believe it was moved back, wasn't it?

And since you're looking up definitions, look up "abeyance." The TRO was not denied, but held in abeyance. which means if USAPA pulls another stunt, that TRO is ready to go. Legally, it is alive and waiting.

But since the injunction hearing was moved up, its obvious what's happening here. The judge is moving to put USAPA into a more permanent set of shackles then a TRO would which is why the injunction hearing was moved to Friday.

Sparrow, you obviously have nothing of substance to contribute to this board so you need to leave.

Find somewhere else to justify your existence.

 

[NoYellowNeck]

What is crystal clear to me... your blind hatred for USAPA and the East pilots speaks volumes about your willingness to ignore safety concerns, placing your crew and passengers at risk. You constantly chide and bluster about the East safety record, yet you demean them and join with the company in labeling their safety concerns and efforts an "illegal job action". I pray that your posts do not reflect the West pilots as a whole.

Oh please.

You guys care nothing about safety. You use it to try and gain artificial leverage for your stagnated attempt at getting a new contract.

USAPA has safety as its FIFTH priority.

Save you crying.

 

[Res Judicata]

What is crystal clear to me... your blind hatred for USAPA and the East pilots speaks volumes about your willingness to ignore safety concerns, placing your crew and passengers at risk. You constantly chide and bluster about the East safety record, yet you demean them and join with the company in labeling their safety concerns and efforts an "illegal job action". I pray that your posts do not reflect the West pilots as a whole.

Oh please. Enough with the mellowdramatic b.s.. We All know what your little "safety campaign" is all about. Please stop insulting our intelligence. Are you the one sending the threatening emails and giving out the "pink panties" award? Is that all about safety too?

The West metrics haven't changed a bit but the East has seen a dramatic, quantifiable increase in disruptive events since exactly May 1. See you in court. I have to go, we're pushing early.

 

[luvthe9]

FAA May Ground America West
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Text Size- / +P H O E N I X, Aug. 26
America West planes will be grounded unless the airline proves within a week that it has completed maintenance on a quarter of its fleet, federal regulators said Friday.

It was the second time this year in which the nation’s ninth-largest carrier faced disciplinary action over maintenance issues. The Federal Aviation Administration threatened in January to bar the suburban Tempe-based airline from acquiring additional planes until it provided adequate maintenance for the ones it had.

This time, David Gillom of the FAA told the airline by letter that, based on an audit and review, “we have serious concerns about American West’s continuous airworthiness maintenance program.”

Overall, the airline must show it has completed the checks on 35 of its 130 planes.

Airline Says It Can Answer Charges

America West President Douglas Parker and other senior executives were away on a company retreat and couldn’t be reached for comment, but Parker issued a statement saying the airline has completed the required maintenance and can prove it.

However, company spokesman James Sabourin said America West canceled seven flights on Thursday in order to complete maintenance checks on nine aircraft.

The FAA is auditing all nine major carriers in response to a January Alaska Airlines crash that killed 88 people, which lead to a review of Alaska’s maintenance practices. Six of those audits have been completed.

FAA spokeswoman Diane Spitalierie said its audit of America West found no flight safety issues but that the agency nonetheless doesn’t consider proper record-keeping and oversight of major maintenance a minor issue, since those practices represent a way to prevent accidents.

History of Problems

America West has been under FAA scrutiny over maintenance for more than two years. The airline was fined $5 million in July 1998 over maintenance issues that included failing to conduct required inspections. Half of the fine was forgiven, despite local FAA officials’ objections.

This past July, the airline temporarily reduced the number of flights in order to double the number of spare planes available and otherwise to give maintenance increased attention in light of reduced earnings resulting in part from delays and cancellations.

In February, a computer glitch led to cancellation of 160 flights and left about 1,000 passengers stranded. Maintenance problems then led to flight cancellations during the Memorial Day weekend in May.

The airline had laid off 500 maintenance workers in 1995 in favor of having an outside firm handle much of the work. Many of the mechanics were rehired in late 1998.

In the current warning, the FAA expressed concern about deferred maintenance and poor oversight of heavy maintenance overhauls conducted by outside vendors.

 

[No Land Green]

You guys care nothing about safety.

Really? Take your Nic Goggles off

 

[No Land Green]

FAA May Ground America West
Share Comment Print
Text Size- / +P H O E N I X, Aug. 26
America West planes will be grounded unless the airline proves within a week that it has completed maintenance on a quarter of its fleet, federal regulators said Friday.

It was the second time this year in which the nation’s ninth-largest carrier faced disciplinary action over maintenance issues. The Federal Aviation Administration threatened in January to bar the suburban Tempe-based airline from acquiring additional planes until it provided adequate maintenance for the ones it had.

This time, David Gillom of the FAA told the airline by letter that, based on an audit and review, “we have serious concerns about American West’s continuous airworthiness maintenance program.”

Overall, the airline must show it has completed the checks on 35 of its 130 planes.

Airline Says It Can Answer Charges

America West President Douglas Parker and other senior executives were away on a company retreat and couldn’t be reached for comment, but Parker issued a statement saying the airline has completed the required maintenance and can prove it.

However, company spokesman James Sabourin said America West canceled seven flights on Thursday in order to complete maintenance checks on nine aircraft.

The FAA is auditing all nine major carriers in response to a January Alaska Airlines crash that killed 88 people, which lead to a review of Alaska’s maintenance practices. Six of those audits have been completed.

FAA spokeswoman Diane Spitalierie said its audit of America West found no flight safety issues but that the agency nonetheless doesn’t consider proper record-keeping and oversight of major maintenance a minor issue, since those practices represent a way to prevent accidents.

History of Problems

America West has been under FAA scrutiny over maintenance for more than two years. The airline was fined $5 million in July 1998 over maintenance issues that included failing to conduct required inspections. Half of the fine was forgiven, despite local FAA officials’ objections.

This past July, the airline temporarily reduced the number of flights in order to double the number of spare planes available and otherwise to give maintenance increased attention in light of reduced earnings resulting in part from delays and cancellations.

In February, a computer glitch led to cancellation of 160 flights and left about 1,000 passengers stranded. Maintenance problems then led to flight cancellations during the Memorial Day weekend in May.

The airline had laid off 500 maintenance workers in 1995 in favor of having an outside firm handle much of the work. Many of the mechanics were rehired in late 1998.

In the current warning, the FAA expressed concern about deferred maintenance and poor oversight of heavy maintenance overhauls conducted by outside vendors.

History repeats itself.

 

[Res Judicata]

Really? Take your Nic Goggles off

Your DOH goggles are jeopardizing the jobs of 32k other workers and may bankrupt your fake union.

 

[jetjok1]

What is crystal clear to me... your blind hatred for USAPA and the East pilots speaks volumes about your willingness to ignore safety concerns, placing your crew and passengers at risk. You constantly chide and bluster about the East safety record, yet you demean them and join with the company in labeling their safety concerns and efforts an "illegal job action". I pray that your posts do not reflect the West pilots as a whole.

Very good post!!!!