US Pilots Labor Discussion

[A320 Driver]

WRONG. You didn't give anything but buyers remorse. The profit sharing is part of the transition agreement AND status quo was followed (as it should have been).

Nos; we tire of your revisionist history lessons. School is now in session. Class starts this Friday morning in court. Try not to get any chalk dust on that three stripe suit..🙂

Wrong yourself. You should NOT have received one dime of profit sharing unless we received parity. It was STUPID of our MEC to give that away. We didn't have to... just like the $35 million payouts.

Profit sharing was promised to us in the contract for MASSIVE pay concessions that you out west had NOTHING to do with.


Driver :angry:

 

[cactusboy53]

Wrong yourself. You should NOT have received one dime of profit sharing unless we received parity. It was STUPID of our MEC to give that away. We didn't have to... just like the $35 million payouts.

Profit sharing was promised to us in the contract for MASSIVE pay concessions that you out west had NOTHING to do with.


Driver :angry:

Uhm.....I'm pretty sure that Mr. Parker (that would be the CEO of the new US Airways) "promised" you no such thing. If you are looking for money lost, perhaps you should look up Mr. Wolfe for those lost funds.

School's back in session. This weeks class is labor law and how economics influences it. See you Friday (me in spirit, I'll be on the links).....

 

[nic4us]

Wrong yourself. You should NOT have received one dime of profit sharing unless we received parity. It was STUPID of our MEC to give that away. We didn't have to... just like the $35 million payouts.

Profit sharing was promised to us in the contract for MASSIVE pay concessions that you out west had NOTHING to do with.


Driver :angry:

umm..you are not paying attention. You did not give away anything.


You got your two $35 million payouts. Which btw is further evidence that the LOA93 payrates do not expire on 12-31-09.

Further, without the West, there would have been no profits for you to get a share of, so stop the whining already. You want parity? It has been told to you from day one, (coincidentally, that being the day the West negotiated itself profit sharing) that we get parity through a joint contract. You could have had parity plus years ago, but the east decided to stay on LOA93.

 

[A320 Driver]

Uhm.....I'm pretty sure that Mr. Parker (that would be the CEO of the new US Airways) "promised" you no such thing. If you are looking for money lost, perhaps you should look up Mr. Wolfe for those lost funds.

School's back in session. This weeks class is labor law and how economics influences it. See you Friday (me in spirit, I'll be on the links).....

You are right. Mr Parker "promised" us nothing. He didn't have a thing to do with it. It was in the EAST contract signed long before AW had anything to do with it. Our profit sharing was shared with the West pilots by our MEC as part of the Transition Agreement. They GAVE it away for nothing.

Not so with the parity issue...the West MEC totally opposed it from the beginning. This is a REALLY sore subject with me so we better drop it right now.

Driver <_<

 

[crazystnic]

Claxon asked: "Did not the Real USAir pilots not give the western division pilots profit sharing?"

USA320Pilot comments: Profit Sharing was part of US Airways' POR and the Pilots' Transition Agreement (TA). The Transition Agreement, agreed to by the Airline parties (both MECs and US Airways), provided Profit Sharing for all of US Airways' pilots. It takes the entire business entity to earn a profit (except now where it appears certain East pilots and USAPA are about to get spanked hard for committing a crime, which according to management has cost US Airways $40 million) and every pilot has contributed to the company's profits; therefore, they deserve and are contractually entitled to profit sharing when US Airways produces an annual profit.

Furthermore, I believe the "Real USAir" pilots are the ones who do not break a promise, do not violate Section 4 of the Transition Agreement that requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented by the Airline Parties, do not try to staple virtually and entire pilot group to the bottom of a joint/merged seniority list, and after tomorrow, are not part of a group that breaks the law/commits a crime.

When is it o.k. to break a promise, violate a contract, or commit a crime?

In addition, US Airways does not have a Northern, Southern, Eastern, or Western Division. And, I believe this type of thinking is divisive.

A few words A joint ratified contract... sorry

 

[mrbreeze]

You are right. Mr Parker "promised" us nothing. He didn't have a thing to do with it. It was in the EAST contract signed long before AW had anything to do with it. Our profit sharing was shared with the West pilots by our MEC as part of the Transition Agreement. They GAVE it away for nothing.

Not so with the parity issue...the West MEC totally opposed it from the beginning. This is a REALLY sore subject with me so we better drop it right now.

Driver <_<

You are absolutely correct, Driver. It was an internal MEC vote that gave the west profit sharing...the deciding vote was cast by none other that Bill Pollack (another reason to hate him). The MEC thought it would be a nice olive branch for the west, but so much for that. It was consumed as an appetizer for the entitlement boys with no thought as to how they were even involved with the payout. Parker probably told them the he was responsible for getting them more money......more smoke blown up their arses. Such BS......it came right out of our pockets as an olvie branch, even though we didn't receive parity......and they just want more. Pure greed! And this was well before the NIC came out, so it was an honest attempt at an olive branch.

So, boys, just add that to the $9 billion we gave up....lining your pockets.

breeze

 

[A320 Driver]

Claxon asked: "Did not the Real USAir pilots not give the western division pilots profit sharing?"

USA320Pilot comments: Profit Sharing was part of US Airways' POR and the Pilots' Transition Agreement (TA). The Transition Agreement, agreed to by the Airline parties (both MECs and US Airways), provided Profit Sharing for all of US Airways' pilots. It takes the entire business entity to earn a profit (except now where it appears certain East pilots and USAPA are about to get spanked hard for committing a crime, which according to management has cost US Airways $40 million) and every pilot has contributed to the company's profits; therefore, they deserve and are contractually entitled to profit sharing when US Airways produces an annual profit.

Furthermore, I believe the "Real USAir" pilots are the ones who do not break a promise, do not violate Section 4 of the Transition Agreement that requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented by the Airline Parties, do not try to staple virtually and entire pilot group to the bottom of a joint/merged seniority list, and after tomorrow, are not part of a group that breaks the law/commits a crime.

When is it o.k. to break a promise, violate a contract, or commit a crime?

In addition, US Airways does not have a Northern, Southern, Eastern, or Western Division. And, I believe this type of thinking is divisive.

Why don't you crawl back under that rock you came out from under? I think YOU are divisive.

 

[nic4us]

You are right. Mr Parker "promised" us nothing. He didn't have a thing to do with it. It was in the EAST contract signed long before AW had anything to do with it. Our profit sharing was shared with the West pilots by our MEC as part of the Transition Agreement. They GAVE it away for nothing.

Not so with the parity issue...the West MEC totally opposed it from the beginning. This is a REALLY sore subject with me so we better drop it right now.

Driver <_<

Sorry..too late...it has been brought up and you are making false statements...so I am going to continue to talk about it.

First, the pilot share of the profit sharing pool is only 36% of the total pool. Did the east pilots also give that other 64% to the other employee groups who, as a result of the merger, get to participate in profit sharing?? No they did not. Just as the east did not "give" the West pilots profit sharing.

Second, you had profit sharing in your contract, we get that, but that is not the same thing we are talking about here. The profit sharing you recieved in 2006-07-10 was a result of the TA. The West is a party to the TA. (pesky little nuance the little lawyer failed to inform the usapa supporters about, that blew wholes in his seniority theft scandal). The West negotiated itself into the profit sharing.

Finally, got any proof the West MEC opposed parity, or even a good rumor? Because, as I recall, it was always the company who opposed parity, and was unwilling to give it. Just as the east was in no position to "give" the West profit sharing, the West was in no position to "give" you parity.

We were on a fast track to a joint contract, had many sections completed, did "Coast to Coast" info pickets together trying to get the joint contract that would bring you parity, then the Nic came out and you guys walked. Then and only then did the West oppose parity.

So, put the blame where it belongs. You could have had parity plus, years ago. You turned it down.

This is a REALLY sore subject with me, that you people cost us all hundreds of millions, but we can talk about it as long as you like, just don't go throwing out lies like Claxon does then think I am going to drop it.

 

[nic4us]

You are absolutely correct, Driver. It was an internal MEC vote that gave the west profit sharing...the deciding vote was cast by none other that Bill Pollack (another reason to hate him). The MEC thought it would be a nice olive branch for the west, but so much for that. It was consumed as an appetizer for the entitlement boys with no thought as to how they were even involved with the payout. Parker probably told them the he was responsible for getting them more money......more smoke blown up their arses. Such BS......it came right out of our pockets as an olvie branch, even though we didn't receive parity......and they just want more. Pure greed! And this was well before the NIC came out, so it was an honest attempt at an olive branch.

So, boys, just add that to the $9 billion we gave up....lining your pockets.

breeze

Well, since you know so much......who cast votes not in favor?


Now if you guys were making the arguement, that because of your lower payscale, that the company profits were larger than would have otherwise been, I would buy that you contributed to West profit sharing. Aside from that, your MEC vote was nothing more than a nice gesture. The east MEC voted to give the West pilots something the West pilots were already going to get, no matter how your vote turned out.

Lets say Pollock also voted no. Then you guys walk in and say you do not want the West participating in the new company's profit sharing plan. Being that the pilots only get 36% of the pool, the rest going to other work groups your vote would also not have effected. The West would have simply said, okay, we want 12% of any future profit sharing pool, and we would have gotten it, and your share would have been 24%.


I do not know how many times you have to be told, but the West was not added to your company, your list, your anything, including profit sharing plan.

Is it true that as a nice olive branch gesture the West MEC voted to give the east pilots pay parity, but wanted West 757 pay parity and the company and the east balked?

 

[A320 Driver]

Sorry..too late...it has been brought up and you are making false statements...so I am going to continue to talk about it.

First, the pilot share of the profit sharing pool is only 36% of the total pool. Did the east pilots also give that other 64% to the other employee groups who, as a result of the merger, get to participate in profit sharing?? No they did not. Just as the east did not "give" the West pilots profit sharing.

Second, you had profit sharing in your contract, we get that, but that is not the same thing we are talking about here. The profit sharing you recieved in 2006-07-10 was a result of the TA. The West is a party to the TA. (pesky little nuance the little lawyer failed to inform the usapa supporters about, that blew wholes in his seniority theft scandal). The West negotiated itself into the profit sharing.

Finally, got any proof the West MEC opposed parity, or even a good rumor? Because, as I recall, it was always the company who opposed parity, and was unwilling to give it. Just as the east was in no position to "give" the West profit sharing, the West was in no position to "give" you parity.

We were on a fast track to a joint contract, had many sections completed, did "Coast to Coast" info pickets together trying to get the joint contract that would bring you parity, then the Nic came out and you guys walked. Then and only then did the West oppose parity.

So, put the blame where it belongs. You could have had parity plus, years ago. You turned it down.

This is a REALLY sore subject with me, that you people cost us all hundreds of millions, but we can talk about it as long as you like, just don't go throwing out lies like Claxon does then think I am going to drop it.

The 36% is straight out of LOA 93, page 12 paragraph a., b. and c. READ IT. We had it, you didn't. We gave it away in negotiations for the Transition Agreement, page 9, paragraph C., 3.

We gave away roughly 40% of what we would have gotten had our MEC not negotiated it away. I am NO LIAR. It is in black and white. I can't make it any clearer.

Driver <_<

 

[Claxon]

Claxon asked: "Did not the Real USAir pilots not give the western division pilots profit sharing?"

USA320Pilot comments: Profit Sharing was part of US Airways' POR and the Pilots' Transition Agreement (TA). The Transition Agreement, agreed to by the Airline parties (both MECs and US Airways), provided Profit Sharing for all of US Airways' pilots. It takes the entire business entity to earn a profit (except now where it appears certain East pilots and USAPA are about to get spanked hard for committing a crime, which according to management has cost US Airways $40 million) and every pilot has contributed to the company's profits; therefore, they deserve and are contractually entitled to profit sharing when US Airways produces an annual profit.

Furthermore, I believe the "Real USAir" pilots are the ones who do not break a promise, do not violate Section 4 of the Transition Agreement that requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented by the Airline Parties, do not try to staple virtually and entire pilot group to the bottom of a joint/merged seniority list, and after tomorrow, are not part of a group that breaks the law/commits a crime.

When is it o.k. to break a promise, violate a contract, or commit a crime?

In addition, US Airways does not have a Northern, Southern, Eastern, or Western Division. And, I believe this type of thinking is divisive.

Face the facts. Franke Air pilots had nothing at at all resembling any retirement program. Remembered,this is the outfit that lowered the bar that set the new rock bottom standard for the industry. For years, Franke Air was the scourge of the industry. real USAir pilots had the unbelievable misfortune to be lumped in with these misfits who would never be hired anywhere else in the industry up to just a few yrs ago. Now you see how the western cretins reward you for obtaining a plan. They stab you in the back. Remember this. Do not ever believe you can combine with them. This is a valid lesson. Take it to the bank. Read what they say. They smile at you and carry long knives under their coats.

 

[Claxon]

This USA said the same thing in your previous victorious legal encounter in PHX where you defeated the westerns. He is an enemy among you who seeks to curry favor with management.

 

[nic4us]

The 36% is straight out of LOA 93, page 12 paragraph a., b. and c. READ IT. We had it, you didn't. We gave it away in negotiations for the Transition Agreement, page 9, paragraph C., 3.

We gave away roughly 40% of what we would have gotten had our MEC not negotiated it away. I am NO LIAR. It is in black and white. I can't make it any clearer.

Driver <_<

From the TA notes regarding as you point out Page 9, paragraph C.,3.

Pilots will receive profit sharing provided that they
were employed during the year when the profit
occurred. Distribution of such profits will be determined
by the MEC(s).

See that little (s) after MEC. That means both MECs decide distribution. You vote what you want, then we either agree or tell you to pound sand, and the money goes into escrow while we work it out. This came up when some east pilots put motions in front of usapa wanting to steal West profit sharing in 2010.

I can't make it any clearer. It would not have mattered if the east MEC voted to exclude the West. We would have gotten it regardless.

 

[Claxon]

From the TA notes regarding as you point out Page 9, paragraph C.,3.

Pilots will receive profit sharing provided that they
were employed during the year when the profit
occurred. Distribution of such profits will be determined
by the MEC(s).

See that little (s) after MEC. That means both MECs decide distribution. You vote what you want, then we either agree or tell you to pound sand, and the money goes into escrow while we work it out. This came up when some east pilots put motions in front of usapa wanting to steal West profit sharing in 2010.

I can't make it any clearer. It would not have mattered if the east MEC voted to exclude the West. We would have gotten it regardless.

This is a prime example of western duplicity. Do you actually believe you will ever combine and take on western mgt with this type behind you? You will get a knife in your back as he pushes you down the stairs.

 

[A320 Driver]

From the TA notes regarding as you point out Page 9, paragraph C.,3.

Pilots will receive profit sharing provided that they
were employed during the year when the profit
occurred. Distribution of such profits will be determined
by the MEC(s).

See that little (s) after MEC. That means both MECs decide distribution. You vote what you want, then we either agree or tell you to pound sand, and the money goes into escrow while we work it out. This came up when some east pilots put motions in front of usapa wanting to steal West profit sharing in 2010.

I can't make it any clearer. It would not have mattered if the east MEC voted to exclude the West. We would have gotten it regardless.

You are making my point. Thanks! The East contract and LOA 93 gave the East pilots the 36%. The MECs (East and West) negotiated that away in the Transition Agreement and split the 36% between both groups. Our MEC didn't have to do that, they did it voluntarily without asking us.

36% is 36%, we had it, you didn't.

Driver <_<