US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Boeing Driver]

From the TA notes regarding as you point out Page 9, paragraph C.,3.

Pilots will receive profit sharing provided that they
were employed during the year when the profit
occurred. Distribution of such profits will be determined
by the MEC(s).

See that little (s) after MEC. That means both MECs decide distribution. You vote what you want, then we either agree or tell you to pound sand, and the money goes into escrow while we work it out. This came up when some east pilots put motions in front of usapa wanting to steal West profit sharing in 2010.

I can't make it any clearer. It would not have mattered if the east MEC voted to exclude the West. We would have gotten it regardless.

Typical AWA spin - this is only partially correct.

You might have been able to talk Parker into giving you some form of profit sharing in the transition agreement; but, if the US Airways MEC (Pollock was the deciding vote) had not voted to give the AWA pilots a portion of the profit sharing which had been designated for the EAST US Airways in LOA 93, you would not have received any of that percentage of the profit sharing. Period - no matter how much you spin it.

So yes - the profit sharing that was supposed to go to the US Airways east pilots was absolutely diluted (gutted) to extend a hand of good will to the AWA pilots. We all know how much good that did us....

Boeing Driver

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Face the facts. Franke Air pilots had nothing at at all resembling any retirement program. Remembered,this is the outfit that lowered the bar that set the new rock bottom standard for the industry. For years, Franke Air was the scourge of the industry. real USAir pilots had the unbelievable misfortune to be lumped in with these misfits who would never be hired anywhere else in the industry up to just a few yrs ago. Now you see how the western cretins reward you for obtaining a plan. They stab you in the back. Remember this. Do not ever believe you can combine with them. This is a valid lesson. Take it to the bank. Read what they say. They smile at you and carry long knives under their coats.

The Franke Air meme still isn't taking hold. Got any other lame ones?

Angry about your lack of contract and LOA 93? There is a man in your bathroom mirror you can blame.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The Franke Air meme still isn't taking hold. Got any other lame ones?

Angry about your lack of contract and LOA 93? There is a man in your bathroom mirror you can blame.

Don't waste your time HP, have Scotty beam you up. No intelligent life forms behind that computer screen

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually, the 36% of the profit sharing pool was and is for US pilots. ALPA negotiated the profit sharing pool for every employee of the company, not just those who fly airplanes and were based in CLT/DCA/PHL/LGA/BOS/PIT, and stipulated that 36% would be for pilots who worked for the company. Of course, at the time LOA 93 was negotiated the merger was nowhere in sight - Parker had already said No that summer and no one else was interested. But US pilots included the West pilots as of Sept 2005. Now, if anyone can point out where LOA 93 or anything else says that the pilot's percentage of the pool is to be distributed to only pilots based east of the Mississippi, or as Boeing Driver put it "US Airways east pilots", I'll concede the point. Otherwise it goes to all US pilots just like the other 64% of the pool that ALPA negotiated goes to all other employees, not just those who were/are original US.

Oh, and Claxon (a device that does nothing but make noise), HP did have a retirement plan. It wasn't a defined benefit plan but yours hasn't been that since 3/31/2003. Although you make much noise, you still tell lies despite your screen name du jour.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

But US pilots included the West pilots as of Sept 2005.

That is correct per the Transition Agreement which was negotiated by the AWA and AAA MECs. Prior to that, LOA 93 gave the 36% to those pilots who flew under that LOA. That would be the East pilot group. The AAA MEC voted to share it per the Transition Agreement.

If they were going to take 40% of my profit sharing, they should have asked me. But, those MECs had a nasty habit of doing whatever they damn well pleased. This is just one example.

Frame it any way you like, but the fact is it was intended to go to the East pilots in LOA 93 in exchange for concessions. It was ours to give up, not Parkers to take.

Driver B)

 

[mrbreeze]

Actually, the 36% of the profit sharing pool was and is for US pilots. ALPA negotiated the profit sharing pool for every employee of the company, not just those who fly airplanes and were based in CLT/DCA/PHL/LGA/BOS/PIT, and stipulated that 36% would be for pilots who worked for the company. Of course, at the time LOA 93 was negotiated the merger was nowhere in sight - Parker had already said No that summer and no one else was interested. But US pilots included the West pilots as of Sept 2005. Now, if anyone can point out where LOA 93 or anything else says that the pilot's percentage of the pool is to be distributed to only pilots based east of the Mississippi, or as Boeing Driver put it "US Airways east pilots", I'll concede the point. Otherwise it goes to all US pilots just like the other 64% of the pool that ALPA negotiated goes to all other employees, not just those who were/are original US.

Oh, and Claxon (a device that does nothing but make noise), HP did have a retirement plan. It wasn't a defined benefit plan but yours hasn't been that since 3/31/2003. Although you make much noise, you still tell lies despite your screen name du jour.

Jim

Jim,

So if what you demonstrate is accurate, why are the West pilots not also working under LOA93...if it were a "blanketing" document that covered all employees?

breeze

 

[aquagreen73s]

Jim,

So if what you demonstrate is accurate, why are the West pilots not also working under LOA93...if it were a "blanketing" document that covered all employees?

breeze

For the same reason that the other employees who were the beneficiaries of the profit sharing negotiated by ALPA are not working under LOA93.

 

[luvn737s]

You are right. Mr Parker "promised" us nothing. He didn't have a thing to do with it. It was in the EAST contract signed long before AW had anything to do with it. Our profit sharing was shared with the West pilots by our MEC as part of the Transition Agreement. They GAVE it away for nothing.

Not so with the parity issue...the West MEC totally opposed it from the beginning. This is a REALLY sore subject with me so we better drop it right now.

Driver <_<

I know what it's like to have a sore subject. Like when USAPA decided to give away the Age 58 bypass provision in the west contract for nothing! It saves the company millions. The east was allowed to vote on a west contract provision that if it had remained in place would have paid the top F/O's (age 58 and above) captains pay for 7 YRS while allowing younger F/O's the opportunity to upgrade. One of the few win-wins in our contract and it was thrown away out of spite for the west by USAPA.

Yeah, there's plenty of sore subject to go around.

 

[A320 Driver]

I know what it's like to have a sore subject. Like when USAPA decided to give away the Age 58 bypass provision in the west contract for nothing! It saves the company millions. The east was allowed to vote on a west contract provision that if it had remained in place would have paid the top F/O's (age 58 and above) captains pay for 7 YRS while allowing younger F/O's the opportunity to upgrade. One of the few win-wins in our contract and it was thrown away out of spite for the west by USAPA.

Yeah, there's plenty of sore subject to go around.

That sucks!

 

[luvn737s]

Thank Cleary.

By recalling him and then throwing him out of the union.

 

[BoeingBoy]

That is correct per the Transition Agreement which was negotiated by the AWA and AAA MECs. Prior to that, LOA 93 gave the 36% to those pilots who flew under that LOA. That would be the East pilot group. The AAA MEC voted to share it per the Transition Agreement.

Although I still stand by what I said, it really doesn't matter at this point because the TA includes the West by negotiation. Did the company "give" 737/A320 captains a $220+ pay rate or was that an unintended (on the company's part) result of the parity +1% negotiations. The company gave you, me and everyone else a job (at PI add a taylored uniform and flight bag) and nothing more - everything else was the result of negotiations.Negotiations resulted in the West getting their share of the 36%. If the MEC had turned it down, what would the company have wanted instead?

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

So if what you demonstrate is accurate, why are the West pilots not also working under LOA93...if it were a "blanketing" document that covered all employees?

breeze

Because of this

For the same reason that the other employees who were the beneficiaries of the profit sharing negotiated by ALPA are not working under LOA93.

Jim

 

[mrbreeze]

I know what it's like to have a sore subject. Like when USAPA decided to give away the Age 58 bypass provision in the west contract for nothing! It saves the company millions. The east was allowed to vote on a west contract provision that if it had remained in place would have paid the top F/O's (age 58 and above) captains pay for 7 YRS while allowing younger F/O's the opportunity to upgrade. One of the few win-wins in our contract and it was thrown away out of spite for the west by USAPA.

Yeah, there's plenty of sore subject to go around.

Agreed...that does suck.

 

[cactusboy53]

You are right. Mr Parker "promised" us nothing. He didn't have a thing to do with it. It was in the EAST contract signed long before AW had anything to do with it. Our profit sharing was shared with the West pilots by our MEC as part of the Transition Agreement. They GAVE it away for nothing.

Not so with the parity issue...the West MEC totally opposed it from the beginning. This is a REALLY sore subject with me so we better drop it right now.

Driver <_<

Bull Honky. WE (that would be all three parties) agreed to the transition agreement tenets (insert ...."it's ALPA's fault" sob story here). The West MEC did not oppose pay parity, BUT Mr. Parker told you (and told you, and told you, and told Scott to tell you, and told you, and told you again.....) that your pay parity would arrive in the fashion of a jointly negotiated contract. Your AAA JNC members along with the company and the west JNC members had around 27 (I believe) CLOSED sections of a 30-some section contract when they were instructed (insert..."it's ALPA's fault" sob story here) to depart from the JNC table when the Nicolau Arbitrated seniority list was delivered to ALPA.

I'm sorry it's a sore subject, but that does not entitle you to special treatment. Get your facts straight. Get your group to "man up" and bargain, negotiate and run a union like a REAL collective bargaining agent and you might just retire with something other than LOA 93. We "westies" tire of the East's incessant crying "foul". You have had 6 years 4 months since the merger announcement, 5 years 11 months since the merger completion, 4 years 3 months to recover from the "travesty of the Nicolau Award", and 3 years 4 months since USAPA was voted in with nary one of its promises being kept.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Bull Honky. WE (that would be all three parties) agreed to the transition agreement tenets (insert ...."it's ALPA's fault" sob story here). The West MEC did not oppose pay parity, BUT Mr. Parker told you (and told you, and told you, and told Scott to tell you, and told you, and told you again.....) that your pay parity would arrive in the fashion of a jointly negotiated contract. Your AAA JNC members along with the company and the west JNC members had around 27 (I believe) CLOSED sections of a 30-some section contract when they were instructed (insert..."it's ALPA's fault" sob story here) to depart from the JNC table when the Nicolau Arbitrated seniority list was delivered to ALPA.

I'm sorry it's a sore subject, but that does not entitle you to special treatment. Get your facts straight. Get your group to "man up" and bargain, negotiate and run a union like a REAL collective bargaining agent and you might just retire with something other than LOA 93. We "westie" tire of the East's incessant crying "foul". You have had 6 years 4 months since the merger announcement, 5 years 11 months since the merger completion, 4 years 3 months to recover from the "travesty of the Nicolau Award", and 3 years 4 months since USAPA was voted in with nary one of its promises being kept.

What he said!