US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

Completely inaccurate. Once again, we negotiated the profit sharing ourselves for ourselves. The east had nothing to do with it.

What an amazing coincidence you negotiated the exact plan the eastern division had. Another example of western pilots duplicity. Any combination with them is absolutely to be avoided. The same with profit sharing. They took both programs and fought your equal pay. They are acting in concert with what Franke taught them. They have harmed both eastern division pilots and the entire industry for years.

 

[LSS]

He just has to read. Unfortunantly, both documents LOA 93 and LOA 96 are BOTH titled "Transition Agreement". Probably went over his head.

Driver

Clearly, the Westies posting here as well as CM suffer from the malady... 'REVISIONIST" history... We on the East saw much of that while ALPO was on the property. I wouldn't waste my time trying to explain what we know as facts to these "entitled" children!

 

[BoeingBoy]

The 36% profit sharing was provided to the East pilots in the Transition Agreement LOA 93 in the FIRST bankrupcy. It was extended in the AWA/AAA Transition Agreement LOA 96 to the West pilots at our expense in the SECOND bankrupcy.

If you're going to accuse others of being wrong you might want to get your facts right. LOA 93 was negotiated just before the SECOND bankruptcy and ratified after US had entered the SECOND bankruptcy. The earlier restructuring agreement negotiated just prior to the FIRST bankruptcy (LOA 84?) also had profit sharing, but that was superseded by the profit sharing plan in LOA 93.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Dupe

 

[BoeingBoy]

USA320Pilot comments: ....

You should take the same advice I gave A320 Driver - get your facts right before pointing out other's inaccuracies.

First, the "Airline Parties" as specified by the TA were US (Group and Inc), AWH and AWA. The two MECs were NOT included, but were defined as the "Parties".

Second, profit sharing for all US employees originated in the 2002 Restructuring Agreement (LOA 84) - NOT the TA. LOA 93 amended the profit sharing plan and the TA clarified the language of LOA 93 (thus requiring a vote of the MEC) to insure the soon to be West US employees were included.

Third, profit sharing was absolutely diluted (as a percentage per pre-merger US employee) by the influx of a rather large number of new US employees - the West US employees.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

If you're going to accuse others of being wrong you might want to get your facts right. LOA 93 was negotiated just before the SECOND bankruptcy and ratified after US had entered the SECOND bankruptcy. The earlier restructuring agreement negotiated just prior to the FIRST bankruptcy (LOA 84?) also had profit sharing, but that was superseded by the profit sharing plan in LOA 93.

Jim

Yes, that is true. LOA 93 was an update, revision, whatever you want to call it, to the agreement from bankrupcy 1. That is a fact. It preceded the exit of bankrupcy 2. That also is a fact. The agreement, the one commonly refered to as the "Transition Agreement" was LOA 96. LOA 93 has a 36% profit sharing in it for the East pilots. I quoted the page and paragraph yesterday in an earlier post. The "Transition Areement" trumped the profit sharing plan for the East pilots and distributed the same amount (36%) to all pilots.

I believe I did make a mistake when I said LOA 93 was the exit agreement for bankrupcy 1...sorry. It was a revision to that agreement (the company coming back for MORE) but it included the profit sharing at the 36% level PRIOR to the merger with AWA.

I miss anything???

Driver B)

 

[A320 Driver]

You should take the same advice I gave A320 Driver - get your facts right before pointing out other's inaccuracies.

First, the "Airline Parties" as specified by the TA were US (Group and Inc), AWH and AWA. The two MECs were NOT included, but were defined as the "Parties".

Second, profit sharing for all US employees originated in the 2002 Restructuring Agreement (LOA 84) - NOT the TA. LOA 93 amended the profit sharing plan and the TA clarified the language of LOA 93 (thus requiring a vote of the MEC) to insure the soon to be West US employees were included.

Third, profit sharing was absolutely diluted (as a percentage per pre-merger US employee) by the influx of a rather large number of new US employees - the West US employees.

Jim

You are merging two different documents. LOA 93 and LOA 96. LOA 93 does NOT include the West pilots. LOA 96 does and states plainly "pilots in the sevice of America West Holdings and US Airways Inc." LOA 93 does not.

LOA 84 could not have possibly have been written to include the West pilots.

Driver

 

[BoeingBoy]

I miss anything???

Driver B)

Only the claim that LOA 93 specifies that 36% of the profit sharing pool is for East pilots only and not US pilots (or even US pilots at the time of signing this agreement). I invited anyone to point that language out to me and no one has. The correction I mentioned was strictly the LOA 93 and bankruptcy 1 connection you made. It wasn't a biggie since I suspect most knew what you meant anyway.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

Only the claim that LOA 93 specifies that 36% of the profit sharing pool is for East pilots only and not US pilots (or even US pilots at the time of signing this agreement). I invited anyone to point that language out to me and no one has. The correction I mentioned was strictly the LOA 93 and bankruptcy 1 connection you made. It wasn't a biggie since I suspect most knew what you meant anyway.

Jim

You are splitting hairs Jim. You know full well that LOA 84 and LOA 93 were not written for the West pilots. They did not come into play until LOA 96. I have the contract and side letters right here in front of me.

Driver

 

[Move2CLT]

We got parity with the east on profit sharing. You did no favors for us.

 

[Res Judicata]

You are splitting hairs Jim. You know full well that LOA 84 and LOA 93 were not written for the West pilots. They did not come into play until LOA 96. I have the contract and side letters right here in front of me.

Driver

This statement is indicative of the persistent, yet erroneous idea that the "West Pilots" were somehow "added" to your list. Wrong. Both companies were dismantled and reassembled as a new entity. Your airline was gone, so was mine. We both deserve a level playing field...something the East just can't wrap their minds around.

 

[A320 Driver]

Only the claim that LOA 93 specifies that 36% of the profit sharing pool is for East pilots only and not US pilots (or even US pilots at the time of signing this agreement). I invited anyone to point that language out to me and no one has. The correction I mentioned was strictly the LOA 93 and bankruptcy 1 connection you made. It wasn't a biggie since I suspect most knew what you meant anyway.

Jim

Screw all this Jim...how was Alaska? THAT is something we can agree on.

Driver 😀

 

[BoeingBoy]

Screw all this Jim...how was Alaska? THAT is something we can agree on.

Driver 😀

It was a combined working/fun trip this year. My brother lives there and had some major plumbing repairs to do on a rental house because the renter moved out in the middle of winter and turned the heat off while my brother was back east. Doesn't take long for pipes to freeze and split (along with hot water heater and well pump case) when the temps -40F.

But the fun part was fun as always.

Jim

 

[A320 Driver]

This statement is indicative of the persistent, yet erroneous idea that the "West Pilots" were somehow "added" to your list. Wrong. Both companies were dismantled and reassembled as a new entity. Your airline was gone, so was mine. We both deserve a level playing field...something the East just can't wrap their minds around.

I don't disagree with anything you said. My problem is, I am saddled with LOA 93 payrates and you are not. My profit sharing was diluted to accomodate the adding of the West pilot group. That was all I was saying from the beginning and everyone got their nose out of joint.

We do deserve a level playing field. These two groups should NOT be on different rates of pay. The seniority dispute shouldn't hold the rest of the contract hostage. It is just one section. But, many of you think the economics will eventually drive the East group to accept the NIC. Some will, most won't. But, you are right. We all deserve better and we won't get it this way.

Driver B)

 

[A320 Driver]

It was a combined working/fun trip this year. My brother lives there and had some major plumbing repairs to do on a rental house because the renter moved out in the middle of winter and turned the heat off while my brother was back east. Doesn't take long for pipes to freeze and split (along with hot water heater and well pump case) when the temps -40F.

But the fun part was fun as always.

Jim

Did you guys go back in with PEX? I has better elasticity as far as freezing/splitting is concerned. Not too hard to work with once you fork out the $180 for the crimping tool. I'll never use anything else. I've never heard of a well casing splitting. Of course we live in an area where the frost line is around 18".

My brother sent me some pictures from Alaska last month. I have got to get up there.

Driver