US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

I don't disagree with anything you said. My problem is, I am saddled with LOA 93 payrates and you are not. My profit sharing was diluted to accomodate the adding of the West pilot group. That was all I was saying from the beginning and everyone got their nose out of joint.

We do deserve a level playing field. These two groups should NOT be on different rates of pay. The seniority dispute shouldn't hold the rest of the contract hostage. It is just one section. But, many of you think the economics will eventually drive the East group to accept the NIC. Some will, most won't. But, you are right. We all deserve better and we won't get it this way.

Driver B)

The profit sharing wasn't "yours". And you know the way to pay patty.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I agree about your feelings on PEX. I used it to redo a "rental" house that our youngest lived in while in college and graduate school - a 1930 era bungalow with mostly original wiring and plumbing. Easy to work with, relatively inexpensive except for the crimper and metal fittings (elbows and the like).

He went with CPVC/PVC except for things like check valves that weren't available in plastic and exposed (above floor) lines like the toilet supply. Part of that is that PEX (like a lot of things) is more expensive in Alaska than the lower 48 - you have to consider it like HI for transportation cost of goods. Almost everything not produced there goes by ship/air to ANC before train/truck to FAI.

Jim

 

[Boeing Driver]

We got parity with the east on profit sharing. You did no favors for us.

No you did not - the 36% was diluted to INCLUDE the west.

Big difference.

Boeing Driver

 

[Res Judicata]

We do deserve a level playing field. These two groups should NOT be on different rates of pay. The seniority dispute shouldn't hold the rest of the contract hostage. It is just one section. But, many of you think the economics will eventually drive the East group to accept the NIC. Some will, most won't. But, you are right. We all deserve better and we won't get it this way.

Driver B)

Airtran is owned and operated by SWA now. Are Airtran pilots paid the same as SW Pilots? No. Not even close. They WILL BE AFTER they complete their transition. Just like YOU were to be paid parity AFTER the transition worked out. Guess what? YOU WALKED AWAY!!!! I honestly cannot understand WHY this is such a difficult concept for the East to grasp! Your side walked out, started your own fake union, decided to hold the West hostage and extort money, and committed a DFR. A DFR that runs unabated to this very second. How can you possibly say you don't have a level playing field? YOU OWN the GOD DAMNED field and won't allow anybody else to play on it!

Are you starting to think that perhaps you weren't told the truth about the Legality of what USAPA was founded for? Even the dumbest among us should be figuring that out by now. If you want parity you need to finish the transition..the transition WE ALL AGREED TO not some B.S. after the fact Larceny to strip the West of anything and everything of any value. Your side get's paid like S**t because you decided to. YOU nobody else.

 

[nic4us]

I don't disagree with anything you said. My problem is, I am saddled with LOA 93 payrates and you are not. My profit sharing was diluted to accomodate the adding of the West pilot group. That was all I was saying from the beginning and everyone got their nose out of joint.

We do deserve a level playing field. These two groups should NOT be on different rates of pay. The seniority dispute shouldn't hold the rest of the contract hostage. It is just one section. But, many of you think the economics will eventually drive the East group to accept the NIC. Some will, most won't. But, you are right. We all deserve better and we won't get it this way.

Driver B)

Okay, after reading all this I now have a better understanding of how the profit sharing came about in the first place, thanks for the education, but I still have a few comments.

1. You are saddled with LOA93 payrates, which became amendable 12-31-09. I am saddled with contract 2004 payrates, that became amendable 12-31-06. While the 2004 payrates are higher than LOA93, they still are lacking when compared to industry. You are stuck with LOA93 by choice, I am stuck with 2004 because usapa made that choice for you and the east's best interest, disregarding my best interest.

2. Your profit sharing was diluted by adding the West, but the math there works out to be, what is better 1/5200th of 36% of multi-millions, or 1/3400th of 36% of $0.00?

3. You are correct in that the two groups should not be on different rates of pay. We should have had a joint contract in the 2006 timeframe the TA references.

G. The duration clause of the Single Agreement
negotiated under this Section V will replace the
respective duration clauses of the America West
and US Airways ALPA collective bargaining
agreements. In the event such Single Agreement is
not reached on or before June 30, 2006, then on
June 30, 2006 either the Association or the
Airline Parties may decide to suspend negotiations
for such Single Agreement depending on the
progress at that time, provided, however, that the
Airline Parties will continue to be obligated to
complete the Operational Pilot Integration within
the specified timeframe outlined in Section VI,
below. Nothing contained herein shall alter,
change, or constitute a waiver of the rights of any
party under the Railway Labor Act.

You folks walked, and locked in our destiny.

BTW, the West sought seperate negotiations, but BRADFORD i.e. usapa said "one contract for all USAirways pilots", thinking he was going to get DOH seniority for a "cost neutral contract".

4. The level playing field disappeared when the east listened to the little lawyer and tried to tilt the field in their favor. The seniority issue only holds contract negotiations hostage because the east took the West hostage. Had the east lived up to the arbitration, we would have been done years ago, and there would be parity.

 

[malikie]

Airtran is owned and operated by SWA now. Are Airtran pilots paid the same as SW Pilots? No. Not even close. They WILL BE AFTER they complete their transition. Just like YOU were to be paid parity AFTER the transition worked out. Guess what? YOU WALKED AWAY!!!! I honestly cannot understand WHY this is such a difficult concept for the East to grasp! Your side walked out, started your own fake union, decided to hold the West hostage and extort money, and committed a DFR. A DFR that runs unabated to this very second. How can you possibly say you don't have a level playing field? YOU OWN the GOD DAMNED field and won't allow anybody else to play on it!

Are you starting to think that perhaps you weren't told the truth about the Legality of what USAPA was founded for? Even the dumbest among us should be figuring that out by now. If you want parity you need to finish the transition..the transition WE ALL AGREED TO not some B.S. after the fact Larceny to strip the West of anything and everything of any value. Your side get's paid like S**t because you decided to. YOU nobody else.

The reason a lot of the east pilots do not understand is because for decades they were told they were the best in the industry working for the best airline in the industry. To this day they still believe they are superior to other pilots in the industry. They cannot face reality that the airline they once worked for was nothing but a regional airline pretending to be a legacy.

They are so far removed from reality nothing will get done.

 

[Monkee]

The reason a lot of the east pilots do not understand is because for decades they were told they were the best in the industry working for the best airline in the industry. To this day they still believe they are superior to other pilots in the industry. They cannot face reality that the airline they once worked for was nothing but a regional airline pretending to be a legacy.

They are so far removed from reality nothing will get done.

US was the big ship that had to take lots of time to turn, AWA was the speedboat that could adapt and turn on a dime. Industry changed, evolve or die, those that couldn't adapt were scrapped. US pilots were so involved in their victimhood that it kept them from seeing what was going on.

 

[flypg]

The reason a lot of the east pilots do not understand is because for decades they were told they were the best in the industry working for the best airline in the industry. To this day they still believe they are superior to other pilots in the industry. They cannot face reality that the airline they once worked for was nothing but a regional airline pretending to be a legacy.

They are so far removed from reality nothing will get done.

Hmmmmm no, wrong ! next ?

 

[flypg]

US was the big ship that had to take lots of time to turn, AWA was the speedboat that could adapt and turn on a dime. Industry changed, evolve or die, those that couldn't adapt were scrapped. US pilots were so involved in their victimhood that it kept them from seeing what was going on.

Here is your banana, now be quiet...

 

[Boeing Driver]

The reason a lot of the east pilots do not understand is because for decades they were told they were the best in the industry working for the best airline in the industry. To this day they still believe they are superior to other pilots in the industry. They cannot face reality that the airline they once worked for was nothing but a regional airline pretending to be a legacy.

They are so far removed from reality nothing will get done.

That is not even close to how the US Airways east pilots think, and is just a stupid statement.

Boeing Driver

 

[2BorNot2B]

Deleted

 

[Move2CLT]

No you did not - the 36% was diluted to INCLUDE the west.

Big difference.

Boeing Driver

Ok, then let's go with your claim. Why then, knowing that you would dilute you profit sharing, would you "give" the west a bite of that apple? I know you guys aren't the most generous types and I can't imagine you wanted to give us a piece of that action. I ask again, why did you give it to us if it took money out of your pocket?

Second, why did you guys not fight for pay parity?

And I'll finish off with an observation. By giving us peofit sharing, the east not only "voluntarily" diluted their share but also, because of LOA 93, increased the pot. The west get even more money because we see me profits because of LOA 93.

Did I get that right?

 

[Black Swan]

The reason a lot of the east pilots do not understand is because for decades they were told they were the best in the industry working for the best airline in the industry. To this day they still believe they are superior to other pilots in the industry. They cannot face reality that the airline they once worked for was nothing but a regional airline pretending to be a legacy.

They are so far removed from reality nothing will get done.

I really don't think you have any idea on how far off you are on this. We knew exactly what we were, a large jet regional in the early 80's. I don't get the superiority part at all. As long as we got decent pay, which we did, we were all fine flying 73's and BAC 1-11 s and DC 9 s. Most of the pilots here knew the place was sliding down after 1990. It is a real shame Gordon Bethune was not retained, but that is past history. From about a year after Seth Schofied ran the place, it was on its' way. It only got worse. There was a small chance of revival with Wolf, but he blew tremendous amounts of cash in an ill conceived buyback. Most of us watched stupid move after another, having no say in it. It was an incredibly sad thing to watch, one CEO after another who was clueless. The pilots had no input, could only sit and watch. Management wanted nothing but givebacks to support one debacle after another. So here we are. This is why you are not going to get what most of us consider the final stripping of our careers. The Nicolau. If someone could come up with a more reasonable approach, you might get some traction. But you are not going to get an East Pilot to capitulate on Nicolau, as it would immediately destroy his forward W-2 fully knowing the attrition is coming. You are asking too much. You will never get that. I don't care what Aqua keeps telling you. As long as you insist on the Nicolau, you are mutually assuring yourselves of staying right where you are also in pay.

 

[Move2CLT]

As are you.

Curious too. How do you propose compromise when USAPAs C&BLs allowing nothing less then DOH?

 

[Barrister]

I really don't think you have any idea on how far off you are on this. We knew exactly what we were, a large jet regional in the early 80's. I don't get the superiority part at all. As long as we got decent pay, which we did, we were all fine flying 73's and BAC 1-11 s and DC 9 s. Most of the pilots here knew the place was sliding down after 1990. It is a real shame Gordon Bethune was not retained, but that is past history. From about a year after Seth Schofied ran the place, it was on its' way. It only got worse. There was a small chance of revival with Wolf, but he blew tremendous amounts of cash in an ill conceived buyback. Most of us watched stupid move after another, having no say in it. It was an incredibly sad thing to watch, one CEO after another who was clueless. The pilots had no input, could only sit and watch. Management wanted nothing but givebacks to support one debacle after another. So here we are. This is why you are not going to get what most of us consider the final stripping of our careers. The Nicolau. If someone could come up with a more reasonable approach, you might get some traction. But you are not going to get an East Pilot to capitulate on Nicolau, as it would immediately destroy his forward W-2 fully knowing the attrition is coming. You are asking too much. You will never get that. I don't care what Aqua keeps telling you. As long as you insist on the Nicolau, you are mutually assuring yourselves of staying right where you are also in pay.

Spot on.....don't forget 9-11 shut down a major profit ctr...DCA....and heard that management is on record in recent meetings as saying 200-250 per year hiring soon
to account for retirements and training float. About 1500 over next 5 years average. They just don't get that this "NIC only sets you back 2 years" is bullshit!!!

NICDOA
NPJB