US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fodase]

I'm guessing that you "KNOW" that you will win that fight, is that right? Well, I talked to an east friend yesterday that "KNOWS" the east will win.

I know the same things you know:

1- The company will not negotiate seniority with the union, they state they are neutral and accept whatever the union gives them as long as it is legal. FACT.

2- The company has accepted the NIC. in writing and paid both pilot groups for it as required in the transition agreement thus completing the seniority list building process as required by the TA. FACT.

3- USAPA wants to advance the east pilots interests to the detriment of the west pilot interests by replacing the NIC. with DOH which has been found to be illegal. FACT.


Based on these facts do you think the east will win?

 

[Pi brat]

Why would I trade careers with you? I'm ahead of you on the combined seniority list and that wouldn't make any sense. Only problem is we have to move one more time because the east high costs have made the America West operation uncompetitive. SUch is life.

Well, maybe. If it goes DOH you certainly are not and if I remember correctly, you may not be on the Nic. What's your DOH? ;-)There is little chance that your lifetime earnings and opportunities will match mine.

As for the costs, another westie myth. Kirby completely debunked that one, but what does he know, right?

 

[Pi brat]

I know the same things you know:

1- The company will not negotiate seniority with the union, they state they are neutral and accept whatever the union gives them as long as it is legal. FACT.

2- The company has accepted the NIC. in writing and paid both pilot groups for it as required in the transition agreement thus completing the seniority list building process as required by the TA. FACT.

3- USAPA wants to advance the east pilots interests to the detriment of the west pilot interests by replacing the NIC. with DOH which has been found to be illegal. FACT.


Based on these facts do you think the east will win?

If those are all "facts", then why the DJ? Why doesn't Parker state, unequivocally what he believes and do it?

Based on the real facts, with my limited legal understanding, I believe there is a good chance USAPA will prevail in the DJ, or at least not get a ruling that the company has to use the Nic, then face a very serious threat and may lose DFR II.

 

[nevergiveup]

I know the same things you know:

1- The company will not negotiate seniority with the union, they state they are neutral and accept whatever the union gives them as long as it is legal. FACT.

2- The company has accepted the NIC. in writing and paid both pilot groups for it as required in the transition agreement thus completing the seniority list building process as required by the TA. FACT.

3- USAPA wants to advance the east pilots interests to the detriment of the west pilot interests by replacing the NIC. with DOH which has been found to be illegal. FACT.


Based on these facts do you think the east will win?

Nic = still not implemented. You can't use it in a merger if it is not implemented. I guess you could frame it and put it on a wall or something. Neither side will win.

 

[Res Judicata]

If those are all "facts", then why the DJ? Why doesn't Parker state, unequivocally what he believes and do

LOOK NO FURTHER THAN YOUR PALTRY PAYCHECK.

 

[Pi brat]

LOOK NO FURTHER THAN YOUR PALTRY PAYCHECK.

Oh, so you do think it is to delay, and not a valid suit. Great, because the west story moves all around. Could you testify in NY?

 

[fodase]

If those are all "facts", then why the DJ? Why doesn't Parker state, unequivocally what he believes and do it?

Those are facts and you cannot challenge them because they are the truth. Parker has stated unequivocally that he doesn't care what list is used as long as it is legal, is the Nic legal? Yes it is, is replacing the NIC. with DOH legal? A jury said no and the 9th said they won't answer that, so the compny is asking for immunity so they can give your precious doh in exchange for coc and a crappy contract.. In addington the judge told the company that had they accepted the doh list they would have been colluding with usapa with dfr and would have remained defendants. As for your feelings on the DJ, I ask only this: What do you think the chances of the company receiving complete immunity from being sued by the west if they go along with usapa and alter a list that harms the west pilots careers?

 

[Pi brat]

As for your feelings on the DJ, I ask only this: What do you think the chances of the company receiving complete immunity from being sued by the west if they go along with usapa and alter a list that harms the west pilots careers?

Zero. You? But then again, I have always thought they met the obligations of the T/A and if they agree to the unions demands to renegotiate a section of the contract they shouldn't be on the hook, the union should. In their case before Silver, the company seems to think otherwise.

BTW, how is CP!? Give him my regards.

 

[nevergiveup]

If those are all "facts", then why the DJ? Why doesn't Parker state, unequivocally what he believes and do it?

Based on the real facts, with my limited legal understanding, I believe there is a good chance USAPA will prevail in the DJ, or at least not get a ruling that the company has to use the Nic, then face a very serious threat and may lose DFR II.

I don't think USAP will lose in DFR based on what the ninth said about it being speculative at best that they could get a contract with the NIC. To me that implies that not using the NIC is in the best interest of everyone and the suit might not even make it to court.

 

[Pi brat]

I don't think USAP will lose in DFR based on what the ninth said about it being speculative at best that they could get a contract with the NIC. To me that implies that not using the NIC is in the best interest of everyone and the suit might not even make it to court.

That's what a friend of mine that has been right more than wrong says. I don't know.

 

[fodase]

I have always thought they met the obligations of the T/A and if they agree to the unions demands to renegotiate a section of the contract they shouldn't be on the hook, the union should.

Well you would "think" that but there have been findings of law (legal precedents) that say if a company helps a union commit dfr, then the company is as liable as the union (hybrid dfr). So I agree that there is a very small chance the company will get immunity, where does that leave us?

BTW, how is CP!? Give him my regards.

Good, on the bus now, I will.

 

[Move2CLT]

Nic = still not implemented. You can't use it in a merger if it is not implemented. I guess you could frame it and put it on a wall or something. Neither side will win.

Actually you can and that's the list that will be used.

 

[fodase]

I don't think USAP will lose in DFR based on what the ninth said about it being speculative at best that they could get a contract with the NIC. To me that implies that not using the NIC is in the best interest of everyone and the suit might not even make it to court.

So the 9th said that as long as the majority is happy it's ok? I think what the 9th said is that the west "might' not object to whatever list usapa comes up with and because no one knows what usapa will come up with until a contract is ratified then we won't answer the question. The 9th also said that usapa must bargain equally for the west or be subject to a "painfully" ripe dfr, what do you think that means?

 

[Move2CLT]

I don't think USAP will lose in DFR based on what the ninth said about it being speculative at best that they could get a contract with the NIC. To me that implies that not using the NIC is in the best interest of everyone and the suit might not even make it to court.

I say you're wrong. And a friend of mine who's been more right than wrong also agrees with me so that trumps Pi's friend.

 

[cactusboy53]

Nic = still not implemented. You can't use it in a merger if it is not implemented. I guess you could frame it and put it on a wall or something. Neither side will win.

Want to bet? That will be the next path to a new DFR. Just keep clickin' them heels, Dorothy. The land of DOH is just around the corner.....🙂