US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Nah, no more aribitration. Last ditch effort. Nothing ventured.....

Over and out.

A worthy endeavor, but one has to look beyond the obvious. As always, the devil is in the details. I can see the West "MC" wanting to base any combined list on everyone's position in 2005 while the East MC would want to use 2010 or 2011. How about what happens if no agreement is reached through negotiations? It'd be an uphill battle to get an agreement - just say forget it if nothing is reached? Another arbitration seems to be out of the question. Look at the makeup of the people here. I'm not saying it's representative of either side but probably does represent enough of either side a DFR is not just possible but likely. What if a combined list is agreed to - if the majority on the East doesn't like it start collecting cards all over again? What if the majority of the West doesn't like the compromise reached? Do they then get a do-over like the East? Do you insist that the company drop the DJ suit while negotiations are going on or risk the courts making negotiations moot?

In short, it's easy to say "Why can't we just work something out?" but what you're suggesting is not guaranteed to resolve the issue any more than doing the same thing did the first time it was tried. In fact, with USAPA and it's DOH Constitution lurking in the background what's to say that it would even accept anything that varied from it's own solution? Per the NMB, USAPA is the only legal bargaining agent so any other entities have no standing to make USAPA accept anything.

Those details and plenty more are land mines just waiting to explode and any one could make things worse rather than better. It could be that trying to reach a compromise would take longer than waiting for the courts to settle the issue.

Jim

 

[Code Name V]

Good God man! I used to think you were clueless!, but I am glad to see you've turned that around 360 degrees.

bravo! couldn't have said it better myself. biggest dumshit in the company.....

V

 

[Pi brat]

Nice try PAI '84, but I think maybe you have come the conclusion I have. That is, where there is a will there is a way, but with the westies, there is no will. They are thinking long term. The Nic is such a home run for most of them that there is no upside to compromise. I know a few captains there were actually open to compromise at one time, but now they see the chances of our NAC negotiating a contract better than what they now have as so remote that they support the west stance in order to keep what they have!

The westies do have a valid point in the "there is no west to negotiate" stance. It's true. USAPA is the only one with the right and responsibility to negotiate for them, so even though AOL could assume the role of west rep as I have said before, they would have no responsibility for what they helped negotiate. The could help come up with a deal, fold tent, open a new one and sue the company and the union for hybrid DFR. I don't believe the company would really be willing to drop the DA with that, Parker's "just give me a list" is b.s. to cover his tracks. I've always thought that one reason the west didn't even want to talk about ideas is so that the posts couldn't be brought up in DFR II as evidence that not everyone was harmed or maybe thought of giving in. I don't know.

I have an "outside the box" idea that I will PM you when I get it put together. It would be all east, so no use letting the westies shred it.

Take care and thanks for trying.

 

[Pi brat]

Here are a few question for westies after the hard time you gave PAI'84.

1) Do you see any chance of the east changing their position, taking the resent CLT election into account?
2) If not, assuming the DA(DJ, whatever it is) goes your way, what then? I think we can all agree that the timeline for that is at least 2.5 years. So, let's say we ride that out, then get a TA in maybe another year, at best. The east will still have the majority, what happens if we turn it down because it includes the Nic. What then? Would the union then have a better position to modify the Nic without DFR risk, or would we have to try and get enough money out of the company to make it worth it?

Ideas?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Do you consider the US military or NRC "fake" organizations?

Now compare that to a survey that is nothing more than an opinion poll of angry east pilots. The safety culture survey was nothing but opinion. No data, no facts.

Are you kidding, not pilot? Seems to me both have initiated little business with USAirways since the merger. Besides a very small part of our overall operation and the aircraft being flown with east crews, tempe had not really had their incredibly negative effect on the operation, yet (A/C not outsourced to foreign overhaul facilities as well as really stupid mx mgt).

Attended the AFA smoke and fume thing in CLT. Interesting how the relevant data is that two pilots have lost their medicals and four flight attendants are _still_ in the hospital (after four weeks), something the tempe group seems willing to lie to cover up. Exactly what kind of "relevant" data does the tempe group need? Numbers of lawsuits seem to be the only thing tempe is interested in. I think going public would be another way. I carry forms with actual information about testing and lawyers to pass out to passengers should something like that happen to a crew I am on. Every passenger will get a form. Love to give Lucretia something to actually, do.

 

[Move2CLT]

Nice try PAI '84, but I think maybe you have come the conclusion I have. That is, where there is a will there is a way, but with the westies, there is no will. They are thinking long term. The Nic is such a home run for most of them that there is no upside to compromise. I know a few captains there were actually open to compromise at one time, but now they see the chances of our NAC negotiating a contract better than what they now have as so remote that they support the west stance in order to keep what they have!

The westies do have a valid point in the "there is no west to negotiate" stance. It's true. USAPA is the only one with the right and responsibility to negotiate for them, so even though AOL could assume the role of west rep as I have said before, they would have no responsibility for what they helped negotiate. The could help come up with a deal, fold tent, open a new one and sue the company and the union for hybrid DFR. I don't believe the company would really be willing to drop the DA with that, Parker's "just give me a list" is b.s. to cover his tracks. I've always thought that one reason the west didn't even want to talk about ideas is so that the posts couldn't be brought up in DFR II as evidence that not everyone was harmed or maybe thought of giving in. I don't know.

I have an "outside the box" idea that I will PM you when I get it put together. It would be all east, so no use letting the westies shred it.

Take care and thanks for trying.

Where was the east will during negotiations, mediation, and arbitration? Thats where it should have gotten done. So save your crying Pi.

Still laughing at how you guys now think you can work things out. What makes you think we can now after all the formal negotiations failed? Tons of money was spent to get the Nic.

Nope, we're done. Keep begging though

 

[Move2CLT]

Here are a few question for westies after the hard time you gave PAI'84.

1) Do you see any chance of the east changing their position, taking the resent CLT election into account?
2) If not, assuming the DA(DJ, whatever it is) goes your way, what then? I think we can all agree that the timeline for that is at least 2.5 years. So, let's say we ride that out, then get a TA in maybe another year, at best. The east will still have the majority, what happens if we turn it down because it includes the Nic. What then? Would the union then have a better position to modify the Nic without DFR risk, or would we have to try and get enough money out of the company to make it worth it?

Ideas?

Pi, you are obviously disconnected here. We don't care what you vote down. You can vote in whomever you want and vote down any TA however many times you want. We don't care.

You'll be on LOA93 the whole time and we'll enjoy a descent contract with pretty good rigs a d other benefits. You guys are rock bottom. You have more motivation to move - not us. And we're all happy working and living on PHX.

Do what you want. No one cares.

 

[Move2CLT]

Are you kidding, not pilot? Seems to me both have initiated little business with USAirways since the merger. Besides a very small part of our overall operation and the aircraft being flown with east crews, tempe had not really had their incredibly negative effect on the operation, yet (A/C not outsourced to foreign overhaul facilities as well as really stupid mx mgt).

Attended the AFA smoke and fume thing in CLT. Interesting how the relevant data is that two pilots have lost their medicals and four flight attendants are _still_ in the hospital (after four weeks), something the tempe group seems willing to lie to cover up. Exactly what kind of "relevant" data does the tempe group need? Numbers of lawsuits seem to be the only thing tempe is interested in. I think going public would be another way. I carry forms with actual information about testing and lawyers to pass out to passengers should something like that happen to a crew I am on. Every passenger will get a form. Love to give Lucretia something to actually, do.

So where are the lawsuits boo?

 

[Pi brat]

Where was the east will during negotiations, mediation, and arbitration? Thats where it should have gotten done. So save your crying Pi.

Still laughing at how you guys now think you can work things out. What makes you think we can now after all the formal negotiations failed? Tons of money was spent to get the Nic.

Nope, we're done. Keep begging though

Where was the crying and begging in my post, s for b's?

 

[Pi brat]

Pi, you are obviously disconnected here. We don't care what you vote down. You can vote in whomever you want and vote down any TA however many times you want. We don't care.

You'll be on LOA93 the whole time and we'll enjoy a descent contract with pretty good rigs a d other benefits. You guys are rock bottom. You have more motivation to move - not us. And we're all happy working and living on PHX.

Do what you want. No one cares.

I guess that answer is the best I can count on for a big thinker like you. You know the TA can be changed with agreement of the CBA and the company, right? That's a thin thread you are holding on to...........

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

So where are the lawsuits boo?

Already filed. Passengers lined up. Good luck!

 

[Pi brat]

Geez, I was expecting immediate and unified replies to my questions. What's wrong, AOL not finished the script yet?

 

[Piedmont1984]

.

You'll be on LOA93 the whole time and we'll enjoy a descent contract with pretty good rigs a d other benefits. You guys are rock bottom. You have more motivation to move - not us. And we're all happy working and living on PHX.

Do what you want. No one cares.

You should really drop that charade. You bring home a few $K more per year than us and you can drop an extra 4 day for vacation. Bottom line is that we both live on the same side of the tracks.

And if your so happy in PHX, change your user name.

 

[Claxon]

You should really drop that charade. You bring home a few $K more per year than us and you can drop an extra 4 day for vacation. Bottom line is that we both live on the same side of the tracks.

And if your so happy in PHX, change your user name.

Why do you waste time with the junior angry and furloughed ? no gainfully employed could post as much.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

And if your so happy in PHX, change your user name.

They love being trailer trash: Arizona among poorest