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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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The army of lyingitas web sites last post was on August 13th. The cryptic message to all west pilots is that all your contributions will be spent to represent eric. eric accepted stolen personal information from east pilots, from a former america west management pilot who had access to US Airways company computers that contained the info.

You still owe andy, 28jjjjjjjjjjjj, jacobs firm a million dollars or more. eric will require thousands of dollars, just to keep him from meeting bubba in prison. The aol contract that you signed in order to contribute, protects him with your perceived endless contributions.




The last message from the army of lyingitas.
 
I really wish you would refrain from inserting Donn Butkovics' statements here. Although Donn is a practicing, licensed attorney, why should we give his words a second thought when we have Cleareddirect, BoingoBoingoBoy (sitting in his basement,) 700UW (stocking the stock room,) and Moved2CLT to weigh in on these matters. Theirs is obviously more knowledgeable input than a mere attorney who has negotiated union contracts before.
Is Lee Seham a practicing, licensed attorney?

So what's your point?
 
If you can't get beyond the fact that no one is cutting into YOUR line, but that one new line is being constructed out of two, then you won't understand why Nic did what he did.

Again, it's a SENIORITY integration, not a LONGEVITY integration and ITS NOT YOUR LINE that another group is being grafted onto. Understand those two concepts and you can move forward.
We will move forward BTW, ATTRITION, now that is what? Oh let us guess LONGEVITY TERMINATION!
 
The crux of the problem with USAPA is that the company is not, nor will they ever be "on the hook" as long as USAPA represents the east exclusively and continues to perpetuate the divisiveness that hatched it. You can't negotiate anything more than what the company will charitably donate to the pilots unless the legitimate threat of a strike exists. There will always be insufficient unity to move the ball forward unless the Nic or it's equivalent is implemented. It is the only integration methodology that has been deemed fair by a mutually-agreed to neutral party.



Man, you were there. How can you take this route.???




Bill_Wilder says:
August 19, 2009 at 12:24 pm
It may well be true that now that USAPA is the representative “there is no one to negotiate with” for the West pilots. The East MEC raised that very danger to the West MEC during its efforts to settle the dispute (including the Wye River) effort as the reason why the two MEC’s needed to resolve the dispute. Again, though, the West MEC refused to heed that warning and engage settlement negotiations.
 
Hate2Fly,

I really wish you would refrain from inserting Donn Butkovics' statements here. Although Donn is a practicing, licensed attorney, why should we give his words a second thought when we have Cleareddirect, BoingoBoingoBoy (sitting in his basement,) 700UW (stocking the stock room,) and Moved2CLT to weigh in on these matters. Theirs is obviously more knowledgeable input than a mere attorney who has negotiated union contracts before.
Amen, I agree remember CLEARDIRECT tried to help us!
 
Bill_Wilder says:
August 18, 2009 at 1:41 pm
I didn’t say the process was flawed, ........


William R. Wilder:
Supreme Court Justice? NO
Court of Appeals Judge? NO
Superior Court Judge? NO
District Court Judge? NO
Magistrate? NO
America's Got Talent Judge? NO
X Factor Judge? NO

Shareholder & Partner of Baptiste & Wilder. Undergraduate degree from Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University. Law degree from The College of William & Mary (Not Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Princeton or University of Pennsylvania). Another lawyer that has said something you believe, and perhaps seeking to milk the USAPA cow (Moo dat!). What a surprise (NOT).
:blink:
 
Hey moron anybody can lease equipment, route authority, gates , slots, why do you think ," YOUR COMPANY" is still here, and yes negotiating those asset sales with other airlines, you are one dumb $%! MM
Being called "a moron and a dumb a**" by you is a compliment.

It must really p*ss you off that Cleary's peer pressure campaign isn't working.
 
When Kasher gives the pilots the money, what are you going to change your screen name to so we can have a heads-up?

I suspect we will never hear from Move2CLT again if Kasher comes through, as you will slink away like the typical west whipped puppy.
Like I said, you've lost. Its been leaked and the decision comes out next week. Look up your CIRP members and check their lines to see if they've been taken off for union business. This should be enough proof for even the most radical eastie.
 
William R. Wilder:
Supreme Court Justice? NO
Court of Appeals Judge? NO
Superior Court Judge? NO
District Court Judge? NO
Magistrate? NO
America's Got Talent Judge? NO
X Factor Judge? NO

Shareholder & Partner of Baptiste & Wilder. Undergraduate degree from Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State University. Law degree from The College of William & Mary (Not Harvard, Yale, Brown, Columbia, Cornell, Dartmouth, Princeton or University of Pennsylvania). Another lawyer that has said something you believe, and perhaps seeking to milk the USAPA cow (Moo dat!). What a surprise (NOT).[/size] :blink:


A guy who has predicted the outcome of this thing dead accurately in every aspect? YES
 
The East pilots refused to take the furlough hit that united airlines ended up taking after we voted alpa out. Nice try alpa.


MEC Chairman’s Message
January 26, 2008
This is MEC Chairman Jack Stephan with a Chairman's message to the pilots for Saturday, January 26th.
This past week, your union has been involved in several activities, addressing many issues that are of importance to you.
On Tuesday, the Council 90 officers held an informational meeting in Charlotte. This briefing was well attended, and it gave our pilots the chance to talk to the CLT reps, MEC Officers, ALPA staff and advisors, and several of our MEC committee chairmen. It also gave me the chance to talk to many pilots—both ALPA and USAPA supporters, face to face. It is always good to get our important issues right out on the table. As I have stated many times, I respect the right of pilots to choose their union representation. However, when making a decision that will have such far reaching effects on your pay, benefits, your working conditions, and ALPA’s current efforts to reach consensual modifications to the Nicolau Award that would survive future mergers, it's crucial that you receive and analyze all the information required in making the right decision. Too much is at stake to rely on rumors—you need the facts, and plenty of pilots were on hand Tuesday in CLT to get the facts and talk about your concerns.
Rumors are what lead me now to talk about some very serious misinformation that was recently posted on the US Airways pilots web board alleging that ALPA attorney Jeffrey Small had stated that if USAPA is voted in and the Nicolau Award has not been implemented, that the Nicolau Award will not survive.
This information is legally inaccurate and the subsequent web board posts have been very misleading. ALPA attorney Jeffrey Small not only denies ever making such a statement, he also states very clearly that:
“A change in union representation does not nullify or modify the Nicolau Award, regardless of which union serves as the bargaining representative.”
The most likely result if USAPA or any bargaining agent attempted negotiations with the Company to mitigate some of the effects of the Nicolau Award would be to secure some protective contract language; protective language that would some day be amendable. I’m sure you all share my skepticism over the permanency of any such contractual fixes. That is why the ALPA process is seeking consensual solutions with the AWA pilots that can be made a permanent part of the Award itself.
You can read what ALPA's legal counsel has to say about the renegotiation of seniority lists under the January 13th entry of What's New. It has also been emailed out to all pilots.
Also this week, as reported on the code-a-phone, the US Airways MEC three-man panel, made up of Garland Jones, Don Iorio, and Rocco Spartano, met with their AWA Steering Committee counterparts in Las Vegas and determined that sufficient common ground exists to continue discussions. With both Steering Committees agreeing upon protocols and rules of engagement, they have now agreed to meet in an extended negotiating lock–
down session that will begin next week for substantive discussions in order to address the issues of importance to both pilot groups.
Relative to the Steering Committee, I would like to address some confusion that may exist about previous MEC resolutions and how they relate to our current Steering Committee activities. Our Negotiating Committee members, who are also JNC members, are offering advice and support to the Steering Committee as is our Merger Committee. To ensure that our Steering Committee is not restrained in any way during this process, they enjoy full access to the expertise and technical knowledge of any and all of our committees, including all of ALPA National’s resources. This process is simply too important not to provide our Steering Committee with everything they need to arrive at a solution.
If an agreement is reached by the two Steering Committees that results in a potential comprehensive counter proposal to management, that proposal would first have to be accepted by both MECs for JNC negotiations to resume. And consistent with our past resolutions, that counterproposal would not only have to adequately address our issues with the Nicolau Award, but parity and retroactive pay as well. If the proposal is found to be acceptable, our MEC could then, through resolution, re-assign our Negotiating Committee members back to JNC duties in order to engage in JNC negotiations with management.
Later next week, AWA MEC Chairman John McIlvenna and I will send all AAA and AWA pilots a letter that outlines the process both Steering Committees will be engaging in and explains the communications protocols that both sides have already agreed to.
I'm pleased to say that both the AAA and AWA MECs are supporting this process, as is ALPA National, both financially and through their considerable technical resources. With the advent of these talks, we are entering an important stage for both pilot groups, and it's necessary to give this process every chance to succeed. This may very well be our last chance to address our seniority and contract concerns in a consensual manner.
Yesterday, MEC Vice Chairman, Kim Snider, met with ALPA’s Merger Policy Review Committee. Kim spent a considerable amount of time detailing his experience with mergers as well as explaining how current policy could be improved. The Committee has also asked for my input and I will be meeting with them next month as well as attending a meeting called by Captain Prater of the Chairmen of the largest MECs in ALPA to discuss the current trends and events in industry consolidation.
There is no doubt that things could unfold rather quickly, so continue to look for the latest information in the MEC code a phones, NewsDirects, Chairman's messages, and Chairman's letters. We remain in uncharted waters but your MEC through many meetings, long hours of hard work and debate, has taken great care to chart our course. We are fully prepared and we ask that you stay informed and dismiss rumors for what they are during this process.
As always, fly safe and thanks for listening.
 
Like I said, you've lost. Its been leaked and the decision comes out next week. Look up your CIRP members and check their lines to see if they've been taken off for union business. This should be enough proof for even the most radical eastie.
HOLD THAT THOUGHT, BOING BOY, THE CIRP MEMBERS PROOF< SHOW US PROOF! MM!
 
Now, that is a good point and I will consider that in the future as far as my comments. I still have a problem in digesting the fact that the NIC can concievably cause me to retire in the right seat after what I have given to this company throughout my lifetime and the amount of time that I have left to try and build some kind of retirement.

Noted, but will take time to digest. 🙂

breeze

This really is one of the big issues, that the east cant seem to grasp, no matter what the east just dont get, it wont sink in, no matter what evidence is provided, what common sense, what history. They fail to acknowledge the facts. The East is like a person with cancer that is in denial.

I am sorry but your company was gone, there was nothing left, you were going to chapter 7 within the week before white knights saved you. (it is all in the BK docs). The company you worked for in your life time was gone, it was a very crummy company with very poor leadership in a very poor economic time.

If the EAST ever realized the truth, the absolute facts then maybe something could get done, but they wont. Plus others on this board have stated their intent is to close down the company, so it really does not matter anyway, some of the east just work here in order to cause havoc to get the place closed because they have other jobs, other business;s, some are staying at us air just to close them down, that is their stated goal. They want to put over 30,000 people out of work. You just cant reason with that sadistic mindset.
 
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