US Pilots Labor Discussion

[767jetz]

Hey, how is that merger going over there? Not too good I hear, because ALPA has messed with the recipe of mergers so many times, the end result clearly is no good.

You obviously heard wrong. What's going wrong with our merger has nothing to do with ALPA or merger policy. In fact the UA and CO pilots of ALPA are in lockstep all the way. Just watch our picketing event this coming Tuesday on Wall Street. The JNC has the full support of BOTH MEC's.

It is the joint contract and the new UA management (former CO management) that is the roadblock. They are screwing with UA's set safety and training practices of the past and trying to cut corners merging fleets. They are also not negotiating in good faith by trying to extract (unsuccessfully) more concessions from bankruptcy era work rules. ALPA is doing everything it legally can and it's a slow process but is moving forward. These things have to work themselves through the NMB process. It is only a matter of time until the NMB says enough is enough and releases us for self help. ALPA has no control over that decision. It's up to the mediator. And the word is he is not impressed with the company's tactics. They are tying their own noose and we are providing the rope.

You on the other hand will never be released while the NIC is being challenged and the DJ is ongoing. I'd rather be taking baby steps forward than chasing my tail around in circles.

 

[luvthe9]

You obviously heard wrong. What's going wrong with our merger has nothing to do with ALPA or merger policy. In fact the UA and CO pilots of ALPA are in lockstep all the way. Just watch our picketing event this coming Tuesday on Wall Street. The JNC has the full support of BOTH MEC's.

It is the joint contract and the new UA management (former CO management) that is the roadblock. They are screwing with UA's set safety and training practices of the past and trying to cut corners merging fleets. They are also not negotiating in good faith by trying to extract (unsuccessfully) more concessions from bankruptcy era work rules. ALPA is doing everything it legally can and it's a slow process but is moving forward. These things have to work themselves through the NMB process. It is only a matter of time until the NMB says enough is enough and releases us for self help. ALPA has no control over that decision. It's up to the mediator. And the word is he is not impressed with the company's tactics. They are tying their own noose and we are providing the rope.

You on the other hand will never be released while the NIC is being challenged and the DJ is ongoing. I'd rather be taking baby steps forward than chasing my tail around in circles.

Someone is in denial, you guys are like our westies to CAL they want nothing to do with you. Wake up.

 

[767jetz]

Someone is in denial, you guys are like our westies to CAL they want nothing to do with you. Wake up.

Wishing the rest of the world is as miserable and downtrodden as you doesn't make it true. Continue to live in your fantasy world. I know my CAL brothers and sisters very well. Talk to them all the time. Attend the meeting and road shows. March at the picketing events with them. How many have you talked to? Your college roommate or neighbor across the street does not represent the pulse of the CAL pilots. Nor do the 1%-ers on forums or anti-ALPA web pages.

Sorry 9, you are stuck in your collective misery all by yourselves. BTW, where's that DOH contract? You still on LOA93? Ouch!

 

[767jetz]

Speaking of mergers and burgers, I have provided a link to the cal seniority merger video you may not have seen in a while. This group looks like a very well fed and eerily intimate bunch. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

They look like they are going to super size their cal seniority order at your expense.

cal merger commitee video

Now, now Nos/Sum/Apollo... You know very well (or maybe you don't) that the merger committee who are responsible for seniority integration can not even start their work until AFTER a tentative JCBA is reached. So what kind of lies and propaganda are you spreading now?

 

[luvthe9]

Wishing the rest of the world is as miserable and downtrodden as you doesn't make it true. Continue to live in your fantasy world. I know my CAL brothers and sisters very well. Talk to them all the time. Attend the meeting and road shows. March at the picketing events with them. How many have you talked to? Your college roommate or neighbor across the street does not represent the pulse of the CAL pilots. Nor do the 1%-ers on forums or anti-ALPA web pages.

Sorry 9, you are stuck in your collective misery all by yourselves. BTW, where's that DOH contract? You still on LOA93? Ouch!

Actually I have quite a few CAL friends and yes some were college roommates 34 years ago, they don't mind ALPA it's just you guys they don't want. LOA93 will be fine with our upcoming raise, hang in there son.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I replied to a post that stated "Exactly - everybody got their rightful place based on the place they had at the time of the merger".

You have to define "place" then. You're apparently using it to mean a bid position held, while I was using it to mean a specific position on the list, regardless of bid held. Presumably that's what the post you were replying to was using too. You'll notice that the Nic list doesn't have a bid position held beside anyone's name. The reason is what I said before - that list was put together by assuming that every active line pilot bid the highest equipment/seat he/she could hold. Bid actually held had nothing to do with the ordering of the list.

Take the time and you'll also notice that the east pilots are in the same order on the Nic list as they are on the east list. Nic didn't just arbitrarily assign people to various spots on his list.

I'd have to re-read the Shuttle award and see what Nic said - my memory (which may be wrong) is that he constructed that combined list with the same methodology that he constructed the current list. It may be that by happenstance the 757 positions that US brought to the merger balanced the number of people that didn't hold 767 and above jobs - after all, there were more 757 captain jobs than 767/330 combined. It may also be, since US was recalling/hiring at that time, that the bottom 767 captain had gotten there by the time the award was released but wasn't there on the PID.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Actually I have quite a few CAL friends and yes some were college roommates 34 years ago

A couple of dozen out of 4700 doesn't a scientifically valid sample make. More telling is the lack of any meaningful effort to dump ALPA, recall MEC members, etc. Apparently your friends are in the minority.

Jim

 

[im back..!!]

You obviously heard wrong. What's going wrong with our merger has nothing to do with ALPA or merger policy. In fact the UA and CO pilots of ALPA are in lockstep all the way. Just watch our picketing event this coming Tuesday on Wall Street. The JNC has the full support of BOTH MEC's.

It is the joint contract and the new UA management (former CO management) that is the roadblock. They are screwing with UA's set safety and training practices of the past and trying to cut corners merging fleets. They are also not negotiating in good faith by trying to extract (unsuccessfully) more concessions from bankruptcy era work rules. ALPA is doing everything it legally can and it's a slow process but is moving forward. These things have to work themselves through the NMB process. It is only a matter of time until the NMB says enough is enough and releases us for self help. ALPA has no control over that decision. It's up to the mediator. And the word is he is not impressed with the company's tactics. They are tying their own noose and we are providing the rope.

You on the other hand will never be released while the NIC is being challenged and the DJ is ongoing. I'd rather be taking baby steps forward than chasing my tail around in circles.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
please keep us updated on that self help. i could use some 74 time for a move to a direct entry position outside this USA nightmare..

any help would be appreciated, i will be new to scabbin, and i will have a lot of competition from the west guys you support on here. so any early allerts will be most appreciatted...thx in advance

 

[cleardirect]

How far back you going to go? When the NIC came down, the junior Captain on the 330 was Portela. His number at that time was around 700.
BTW, you prove me wrong and I'll say I'm wrong. I don't "spew" BS and lies. I just make mistakes like everyone else.

Driver

I told you I had the bid for April 2008.

The Nicolau came out May 2007. I have the bid from April 2008. Are you trying to tell me that the junior 330 captain went from 700 in May 2007 to 388 in less than a year. That it got senior by half? Seriously doubt it.

By your own numbers your statement was "dozens of west pilots" Now you try and say it was 700 and the east had the first 517. Now you are saying that 183 west pilots would be senior enough to hold a 330 captain seat? 10% of the west pilots could have held a 330 captain seat according to you. The facts just don't prove that.

 

[A320 Driver]

I told you I had the bid for April 2008.

The Nicolau came out May 2007. I have the bid from April 2008. Are you trying to tell me that the junior 330 captain went from 700 in May 2007 to 388 in less than a year. That it got senior by half? Seriously doubt it.

By your own numbers your statement was "dozens of west pilots" Now you try and say it was 700 and the east had the first 517. Now you are saying that 183 west pilots would be senior enough to hold a 330 captain seat? 10% of the west pilots could have held a 330 captain seat according to you. The facts just don't prove that.

You said you had all the bids back to April 04 not April 2008.

Of course 183 West pilots couldn't hold the A330. But 30 of so of them could have spanning a range of about the most senior 180 West pilots. In Fall or Winter of 2007/2008, the junior 30 or so A330 Captains were displaced back to the 767. After the closure of BOS and LGA, the bids tightened up to where we are today.

You need a new set of facts. All this started with my response to a post stating that we were "exactly" where we should be when NIC II came out. That just wasn't the case.

Also, I used 700 to be conservative. The junior A330 Captain was actually in the 730 range. I don't want to argue about this anymore. I really don't have time for it. I come here on occasion. I don't live on these boards like some do.

Driver <_<

 

[A320 Driver]

I'd have to re-read the Shuttle award and see what Nic said - my memory (which may be wrong) is that he constructed that combined list with the same methodology that he constructed the current list. It may be that by happenstance the 757 positions that US brought to the merger balanced the number of people that didn't hold 767 and above jobs - after all, there were more 757 captain jobs than 767/330 combined. It may also be, since US was recalling/hiring at that time, that the bottom 767 captain had gotten there by the time the award was released but wasn't there on the PID.

Jim

This is when the water really gets muddy. In NIC I, no Group 2 Shuttle pilot went senior to the most junior Group 1 757/767 Captain (we had no A330s at the time that I am aware of). West has a handful of 757s that were, for pay purposes, a Group 2 airplane. But NIC II slots in West Captains with East 757/767 Group 1 Captains and A330 Captains.

My dispute was with the word "exactly". NIC didn't follow the same guidelines for NIC I and NIC II nor does he have to. They are what they are and they are not the same. I concede that there may be a difference in the bids between that of the PID and when NIC II came out, I just can't remember and I don't want to research it.

Driver B)

 

[apollo]

You obviously heard wrong. What's going wrong with our merger has nothing to do with ALPA or merger policy. In fact the UA and CO pilots of ALPA are in lockstep all the way. Just watch our picketing event this coming Tuesday on Wall Street. The JNC has the full support of BOTH MEC's.

How original and endearing.

They will be all warmed up for you after this weekend.

 

[apollo]

It is the joint contract and the new UA management (former CO management) that is the roadblock. They are screwing with UA's set safety and training practices of the past and trying to cut corners merging fleets. They are also not negotiating in good faith by trying to extract (unsuccessfully) more concessions from bankruptcy era work rules. ALPA is doing everything it legally can and it's a slow process but is moving forward. These things have to work themselves through the NMB process. It is only a matter of time until the NMB says enough is enough and releases us for self help. ALPA has no control over that decision. It's up to the mediator. And the word is he is not impressed with the company's tactics. They are tying their own noose and we are providing the rope.

You on the other hand will never be released while the NIC is being challenged and the DJ is ongoing. I'd rather be taking baby steps forward than chasing my tail around in circles.

What a unique situation you have. Much different from the US Airways pilots. (satire)

Former united pilot alpa leader Dubinsky wanted to choke the goose, the present ual pilots are just choking the chicken.

 

[767jetz]

What a unique situation you have. Much different from the US Airways pilots. (satire)

Difference being that UA management is cutting corners in training to new SOP's for the combined group in an attempt to get their coveted SOC. And ALPA is opposing it through LEGAL means, not illegal job actions and false "safety campaigns." When you have unity and solidarity you can achieve things that USAPA can only dream, and stomp, and shout about.

Try again, Claxon.

 

[767jetz]

How original and endearing.

They will be all warmed up for you after this weekend.

So Nos/Sum/Clax/Apollo,

Are you comparing an angry mob from last week to the upcoming ALPA march on Wall Street?

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!! lmfao!

PS, How many screen names do you have? You are fooling no one. (Except perhaps yourself.)