US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

I told you I had the bid for April 2008.

The Nicolau came out May 2007. I have the bid from April 2008. Are you trying to tell me that the junior 330 captain went from 700 in May 2007 to 388 in less than a year. That it got senior by half? Seriously doubt it.

By your own numbers your statement was "dozens of west pilots" Now you try and say it was 700 and the east had the first 517. Now you are saying that 183 west pilots would be senior enough to hold a 330 captain seat? 10% of the west pilots could have held a 330 captain seat according to you. The facts just don't prove that.

I have the permanent bid results for Feb 07. From the Nic:

What remains is the balance of the list. Here, we have decided
on ratios by category and status based on the aircraft in the fleets as
of January 1,2007.


On the Feb 07 bid the bottom A330 captain was almost # 600. On the Nicolau award, published shortly after this guy received his bid, approx. 46 west guys were slotted ahead of him.

I can't find the bid for when the actual award came out, but Clear I think you owe Drive an apology.

I don't want to use his name or number due to all the hysteria about security.

 

[A320 Driver]

Difference being that UA management is cutting corners in training to new SOP's for the combined group in an attempt to get their coveted SOC. And ALPA is opposing it through LEGAL means, not illegal job actions and false "safety campaigns." When you have unity and solidarity you can achieve things that USAPA can only dream, and stomp, and shout about.

Try again, Claxon.

You don't even work here. Why are you so threatened by USAPA? The East pilot group?

Just curious...

Driver B)

 

[Pi brat]

He didn't, but you'll never believe anyone who says that. What was Colello's position on the PID? Where was he on the Nic? Same place on both - most senior furloughed east pilot. Now, what position did he hold on 1/1/2007?

Jim

From the Nic:

"What remains is the balance of the list. Here, we have decided
on ratios by category and status based on the aircraft in the fleets as
of January 1,2007."

He used active/furloughed status from '05, fleet '07.

On May 19, 2005, Dean was "furloughed but still flying for US Airways".On the Feb 07 bid he had managed to move all the way to 76I, despite the loss of about 50 hulls, yet he was slotted behind the bottom AWA guy that had a massive month invested in our airline the day the merger was announced.

 

[BoeingBoy]

This is when the water really gets muddy. In NIC I, no Group 2 Shuttle pilot went senior to the most junior Group 1 757/767 Captain (we had no A330s at the time that I am aware of). West has a handful of 757s that were, for pay purposes, a Group 2 airplane. But NIC II slots in West Captains with East 757/767 Group 1 Captains and A330 Captains.

I'll take your word for it and without reading the award I don't know why the different methodology, if it was indeed different. Maybe that was how he protected the 767 for the US pilots for a while, putting more at the top than there were jobs as he did in this merger (just a different way of doing it). But using the same methodology as this time, the 757 and 767 jobs were US only as I said - Shuttle brought neither. So US pilots should have been put at the top equal to the number of jobs on both those planes. Making it likely that pilots holding the 767 were above Shuttle pilots. One does need to be careful to not mistake what bid was held when the award was published with that held on the PID. The combined list is constructed around the jobs on the PID if there's not a change already in the works.

My dispute was with the word "exactly"

That may be semantics only - it was between you and I. A pilot can be "exactly" in the same order among his pre-merger peers and "exactly" in the same relative position but not "exactly" capable of holding the same bid if everyone above him/her bids the most their seniority can hold. But in the real world, every pilot bidding the highest position they can hold doesn't exist. There are those that bid for QOL, or whatever. East, with the worst reserve system, just has more of that.

Jim

 

[Res Judicata]

From the Nic:

"What remains is the balance of the list. Here, we have decided
on ratios by category and status based on the aircraft in the fleets as
of January 1,2007."

He used active/furloughed status from '05, fleet '07.

On May 19, 2005, Dean was "furloughed but still flying for US Airways".On the Feb 07 bid he had managed to move all the way to 76I, despite the loss of about 50 hulls, yet he was slotted behind the bottom AWA guy that had a massive month invested in our airline the day the merger was announced.

Sniff sniff.....

 

[A320 Driver]

Sniff sniff.....

LOL!!!!!

A validation of a post if I ever saw one. THANK YOU Res!

Driver B)

 

[cleardirect]

You don't even work here. Why are you so threatened by USAPA? The East pilot group?

Just curious...

Driver B)

Claxon says he does not work here either. Why have you never called him on posting here? why is Claxon so threatened by the west pilots?

 

[A320 Driver]

Claxon says he does not work here either. Why have you never called him on posting here? why is Claxon so threatened by the west pilots?

Simple... I didn't know. I'm not sure why anyone not directly impacted by all of this would care.

I was just curious anyway.

Driver B)

 

[Pi brat]

Sniff sniff.....

SLAM!!!!!!!!!! You showed me! What a thoughtful and eloquent response to my posts of the the last few days. You sure showed me the facts!

BTW, have you seen your twin DreaminofCLT? He has some facts for me and I think this the longest he has gone without post since he "arrived" here.

 

[Pi brat]

Claxon says he does not work here either. Why have you never called him on posting here? why is Claxon so threatened by the west pilots?

Are you still working on your apology to Driver?

 

[cleardirect]

I have the permanent bid results for Feb 07. From the Nic:

What remains is the balance of the list. Here, we have decided
on ratios by category and status based on the aircraft in the fleets as
of January 1,2007.


On the Feb 07 bid the bottom A330 captain was almost # 600. On the Nicolau award, published shortly after this guy received his bid, approx. 46 west guys were slotted ahead of him.

I can't find the bid for when the actual award came out, but Clear I think you owe Drive an apology.

I don't want to use his name or number due to all the hysteria about security.

The oldest bid I have says the junior 330 captain was number 388. It also shows that that were only 79 330 captains position. Now you are telling me that the "super premium highly desired senior international wide body flying" went so junior you had to dig 600 number in your list? What is it boys is the 330 flying highly prized or is crap flying that is more about ego?

At this point I wish Nicolau had protected your 19 aircraft so you guys will quite whining about it. But you know what if you had accepted the Nicolau and come to the table back in 2007 with the JNC all the captains could be making more that $160 per hour. But instead you cry about a hand full of spots desperately clinging to a low pay rate tripping over dollars and ego to pick up pennies.

On the last bid the junior 330 captain is K.A. Snider number 421. On the Nicolau list today there are only 21 west pilots senior to Snider. But the number of 330 captain positions has increased from 79 to 123 adding 44. If you take those 44 positions away even today 4 years later no west pilot is senior enough to hold a 330 captain position. Nicolau did protect the 330 positions.

So no I do not own anyone an apology. His statement was wrong that "dozens of west pilots" could hold a 330 captain position.

 

[Pi brat]

The oldest bid I have says the junior 330 captain was number 388. It also shows that that were only 79 330 captains position. Now you are telling me that the "super premium highly desired senior international wide body flying" went so junior you had to dig 600 number in your list? What is it boys is the 330 flying highly prized or is crap flying that is more about ego?

At this point I wish Nicolau had protected your 19 aircraft so you guys will quite whining about it. But you know what if you had accepted the Nicolau and come to the table back in 2007 with the JNC all the captains could be making more that $160 per hour. But instead you cry about a hand full of spots desperately clinging to a low pay rate tripping over dollars and ego to pick up pennies.

On the last bid the junior 330 captain is K.A. Snider number 421. On the Nicolau list today there are only 21 west pilots senior to Snider. But the number of 330 captain positions has increased from 79 to 123 adding 44. If you take those 44 positions away even today 4 years later no west pilot is senior enough to hold a 330 captain position. Nicolau did protect the 330 positions.

So no I do not own anyone an apology. His statement was wrong that "dozens of west pilots" could hold a 330 captain position.

I told you that I have an older bid, and it shows about 46 west pilots senior to the bottom A330 captain in PHL. That would be several dozen. They couldn't all hold the 330, as the bottom 5 or so had a big gap in seniority. Something big happened in '08, remember? The bottom 330 captains lost their bids as there were displacements.

You accused Driver of lying. He didn't, hence a man of integrity would apologize. So, I don't expect one from you.........

As for the prized flying, look at the latest bid and the numbers of A330 F/Os and what those seniority numbers could hold. Yeah, it must suck.

 

[Black Swan]

You obviously heard wrong. What's going wrong with our merger has nothing to do with ALPA or merger policy. In fact the UA and CO pilots of ALPA are in lockstep all the way. Just watch our picketing event this coming Tuesday on Wall Street. The JNC has the full support of BOTH MEC's.

It is the joint contract and the new UA management (former CO management) that is the roadblock. They are screwing with UA's set safety and training practices of the past and trying to cut corners merging fleets. They are also not negotiating in good faith by trying to extract (unsuccessfully) more concessions from bankruptcy era work rules. ALPA is doing everything it legally can and it's a slow process but is moving forward. These things have to work themselves through the NMB process. It is only a matter of time until the NMB says enough is enough and releases us for self help. ALPA has no control over that decision. It's up to the mediator. And the word is he is not impressed with the company's tactics. They are tying their own noose and we are providing the rope.

You on the other hand will never be released while the NIC is being challenged and the DJ is ongoing. I'd rather be taking baby steps forward than chasing my tail around in circles.

I heard it is the UAL pilots falsely claiming safety issues. There are no problems at UAL of CO. You guys need to get with the program just like the west pilots claim. How can you be upset with the superior CO management that is just streamlining policies? They obviously have more experience running a quality outfit.

 

[mrbreeze]

BTW, have you seen your twin DreaminofCLT? He has some facts for me and I think this the longest he has gone without post since he "arrived" here.

I think he was thrown off these boards for lying, cursing, name calling, and just being stooopid!

 

[cleardirect]

I told you that I have an older bid, and it shows about 46 west pilots senior to the bottom A330 captain in PHL. That would be several dozen. They couldn't all hold the 330, as the bottom 5 or so had a big gap in seniority. Something big happened in '08, remember? The bottom 330 captains lost their bids as there were displacements.

You accused Driver of lying. He didn't, hence a man of integrity would apologize. So, I don't expect one from you.........

As for the prized flying, look at the latest bid and the numbers of A330 F/Os and what those seniority numbers could hold. Yeah, it must suck.

We were not talking about 330 F/O's we were talking about 330 captains. Of course your underpaid over-aged F/o's are desperate to scrap together any pennies they can before retiring on LOA 93. Since your egos are so big if they can't say they are captains at least they can say INTERNATIONAL WIDE BODY f/o. Why was there a big gap to the last 5 330 cvaptains? No one wanted to sit bottom reserve? If that gap had shifted up how many west pilot could hold 330 captain? Still dozens? Today how many west pilots can hold 330 captain? Dozens?

I don't care what happen in 2008. There were only 79 330 captain positions. If it went to 388 or 700. They were not the high demand jobs you all say they are. BTW the what happened in 2008? usapa came on the property.

You guys keep telling untruths about the Nicolau award. If your MEC had been honest about the award in 2007 and if you east guys would educate yourselves as to the truth we all would not be in this mess. someday you guys are going to understand the reality and truth. You wilol understand how much your ignorance has cost all of us.