US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mikey60]

You would win that bet, because what I have is much more than 17 years for the company that BOUGHT your bankrupt carrier. Me and every West pilot only have around 5 year of experience with your "hell hole", and since we are not on that shitty contract you decided to keep, we really have 0 years experience in the "hell hole".

It is you and the usapa supporters that want to steal my position from me that have spent all the time in the "hell hole" you have so rightfully dug yourselvles into.

So, you win Mikey, I was not stupid enough to ever try and get hired at your "hell hole". I had a much better gig, and still do, and I am senior to the likes of not only Coello, who works for the scab union that is facilitaing his scab antics, I am senior to Theur, Bradford, Cleary, Mowery..and just about every usapa officers name I have ever heard.

I am more than ready for any "big surprise". Actually, after the complete miscarriage of justice that has occurred, nothing would really surprise me anymore. So I welcome any "big surprise".

Oh, BTW "kid", that meth addict shaking in church is were Cleary and the usapa BPR are headed when their DOH scab dream comes crashing down, and we put a 40 year old West captain in the left seat of the 330 just to keep them from getting it. Can't wait to meet Cleary face to face. This will be fun!!!!

But you dont have more than 17 yrs seniority and you belong below the person that does and thats where you are going to be. The hell hole or toilet started when we attempted to merge with a bunch of pilot wannabes Mesa REJECTS and thats what we are dealing with now Mesa REJECTS that are 2 mill in the hole.

 

[Keroseneuser]

How will USAPA's supporters (which is not me) deal with losing Seham if his contract is terminated for alleged wrong doing?

Well it's a safe bet that we won't be seeing ALPA rise again around here. Also considering that nobody on the line ever discusses such things while out flying. My guess is things will continue on just as they have been.

I do hear some rumble about the teamsters from time to time though.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Survey: Health insurance costs surged in 2011



INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — A new survey shows that the average cost of employer-sponsored health insurance surged this year, snapping a trend toward moderate growth, but experts say increases may slow again in 2012.

A study by the Kaiser Family Foundation says annual premiums for family coverage climbed 9 percent compared to 2010, when they rose only 3 percent.

Companies and workers split the premium for employer-sponsored coverage, the most common form of health insurance in the United States.

The study does not delve into why rates spiked this year, but Kaiser officials say the cost of care continues to rise and new health care overhaul provisions played a small role.

 

[USA320Pilot]

I could be wrong, but I believe Cleary is drumming up a reason to fire Seham because Seham refused to file the Status Quo Lawsuit and advise USAPA how to stay clear of legal trouble for the union's orchestrated illegal job action.

But, how can Cleary do that without alienating his support base: the Angry East First Officers (AEFOs) who were hired in 1988, 1989, 1990, and 1999 who were all furloughed? In Cleary's mind I strongly believe he could care less about anybody below him on the seniority list and to some extent the Nicolau Award. Therefore, my point is this. Could Cleary be throwing the all or nothing anti-Nicolau Award people under the bus by terminating Seham's USAPA contract because the AEFOs would lose the architect of why "it's o.k. to renege on a final and binding agreement and seniority can be negotiated like crew meals?"

I'm not sure what's going on here because USAPA is not transparent, but I believe we will see alleged wrong doing uncovered regarding Seham's so-called "bizarre" billing, S,S,M,&P (along with Scott Peterson) will be fired, and O'Dwyer & Bernstein will be retained because like Mowery, DiOrio, Lopez, Day, Davidson, Theure, and Parella the new lawyers will pledge their allegiance to the Führer.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Appeal Board Hearing Postponed: September 26, 2011


Captain Michael Cleary
President
US Airline Pilots Association (USAPA)
200 E. Woodlawn, Suite 250
Charlotte, NC 28217

RE: USAPA BPR v. Eric Ferguson and Ken Holmes Appeal Board Case No. 2011-006

Dear Captain Cleary:

We are in receipt of your request to postpone the appeal board hearing currently scheduled for September 27-29 in Charlotte and the appeal board hereby grants your request.

Sincerely,

USAPA Appeal Board Members

______

Why did the Cleary delay the hearing?

With the Company's investigation showing no wrong doing and the results of US Airways' outside investigation not complete could Cleary have no evidence to take action against Eric and Ken? What useful benefit is it to punish people who you want to reach a deal with? By the way...who can legally negotiate for USAPA's PHX-based pilots to change the Nicolau Award? I believe nobody.

 

[Keroseneuser]

______

Why did the Cleary delay the hearing?

With the Company's investigation showing no wrong doing and the results of US Airways' outside investigation not complete could Cleary have no evidence to take action against Eric and Ken? What useful benefit is it to punish people who you want to reach a deal with? By the way...who can legally negotiate for USAPA's PHX-based pilots to change the Nicolau Award? I believe nobody.

Could be. Or they may have reason to believe LOA 93 is a win and figure there won't be a need to negotiate a new contract, or they may believe that an AA/US merger is coming in december so no need, or it might have been scheduled on half price day at the Uptown Cabaret! Who knows.

P.S. I hear the buffet at the Uptown is quite good.

 

[cleardirect]

Could be. Or they may have reason to believe LOA 93 is a win and figure there won't be a need to negotiate a new contract, or they may believe that an AA/US merger is coming in december so no need, or it might have been scheduled on half price day at the Uptown Cabaret! Who knows.

P.S. I hear the buffet at the Uptown is quite good.

If LOA 93 is a win why would they not have to negotiate a contract? The majority getting a raise and the union walking away from negotiations leaving 1/3 of the pilots group without a single benefit of this merger would be another DFR.

 

[Move2CLT]

Jim,


You never really get it. The pulse of the east pilot is money. Plain and simple. LOA 93 pay restoration will provide that. I told you this a long time ago.

Addington.......................we spanked all over you on that one. WIN EAST

LOA 93 Pay Restoration.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Pending

PBGC law suit...................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Pending

MDA...............................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^. Pending

Attrition..........................25 new hires per month starting Jan. 2012 WIN EAST

Going forward every new hire in the east will always vote with the east pilot group. They will enjoy rapid advancement to the left seat and eventually left seat on the wide body. New hires will be looking at the quickest way to the money trail. All trails lead to the east! That you can take to the bank.

Hate

Wow Hate. You guys are kicking our asses so badly I'm just wondering why DOH isn't in place yet? What about parity? Why haven't you passed a new DOH proposal to the company? You have the majority. You control the BPR. Yet your union continues to flounder. What's going on?

 

[Keroseneuser]

If LOA 93 is a win why would they not have to negotiate a contract? The majority getting a raise and the union walking away from negotiations leaving 1/3 of the pilots group without a single benefit of this merger would be another DFR.

Was just stating that there could be all kinds of reasons why. CM is well known for stirring the pot both online and in the newspapers to further his own agenda. His post that I responded to is more of the same.

But if LOA 93 does go the east's way, it will change what east pilots would be willing to negotiate on (meaning vote on) Right now I think if the 2 hard core sides would get off their NIC and DOH horses you would be surprised what the majority of the east would vote in. They won't do NIC as it stands but the majority of the group has been though too many mergers to not be reasonable.

However if the east goes back to 2002 rates or something in between, I don't know if there is a contract out there that Tempe would go for that could possibly be voted in prior to 2020 (meaning prior to 1600+ east retirements) So from that point of view, The majority will never ratify anything with NIC in it. The only way that will ever come to be will be if a court orders it and every concievable appeal has been exhausted. And a LOA 93 win would mean most of the east group would have zero incentive to ever vote for anything that would hurt their seniority in even the smallest degree. Right now most of the easties would be willing to compromise on something in the middle.

We are down to 2 options the way I see it. Figure out some way to meet in the middle or let the years long court battle play out. And yes I realize that the west does not really have a negotiating body right now. So we either start putting middle of the road stuff out and see if a T/A can get ratified by east and west, or we wait till whenever the courts figure it out.

I hear all the time in the crew room pilots saying that they fully expect to retire on LOA 93, and in the same breath they say they will never ever accept a NIC list. So we can either come up with something fresh and different, or more of the same till 2020 at least.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Hate said: "You never really get it. The pulse of the east pilot is money."

USA320 comments: If that's the case then you guys are failing. Click here to read one more point why.

 

[crazystnic]

If LOA 93 is a win why would they not have to negotiate a contract? The majority getting a raise and the union walking away from negotiations leaving 1/3 of the pilots group without a single benefit of this merger would be another DFR.

wow. seems like the west wanted nothing to do with helping the east reach parity..
If we win enjoy your rope.

 

[crazystnic]

Attrition: For 2012 the east has 9 reaching 65. You say the company is going to replace 25 a month or 300 per year. Does that make sense to anyone? Does anyone believe that this cheap company is going to add an additional 290 pilots to the payroll for no reason? Remember what you tell us. The west is stealing flying from the east. We need to maintain min block hours and they just dropped more west flying. That means more east flying coming west.

Oh well. Keep dreaming and listening to those crew room rumors.

BTW when was the last thing that happened in the MDA case? Is there even a trial date set yet? Pending = dead case

PBGC last few updates seemed a little less confident then when they began. From the PBGC committee.



Palatable? That does not sound like someone going to jail and the east getting your pension back. That sounds like we looked at it and maybe some errors were made but nothing big and there will be no money. But as long as you "feel " better about it worth the $3-4 million I guess.
What is the opposite of not ripe?

just wait and see what the hiring will be, I suspect it will be at least 25 a month by mid summer.. With the trainning float and all.

 

[cleardirect]

just wait and see what the hiring will be, I suspect it will be at least 25 a month by mid summer.. With the trainning float and all.

What happens when training catches up and the training float sinks? Another 500-1000 furloughs? Be sure to tell the new hires that as they come on.

 

[cleardirect]

Was just stating that there could be all kinds of reasons why. CM is well known for stirring the pot both online and in the newspapers to further his own agenda. His post that I responded to is more of the same.

But if LOA 93 does go the east's way, it will change what east pilots would be willing to negotiate on (meaning vote on) Right now I think if the 2 hard core sides would get off their NIC and DOH horses you would be surprised what the majority of the east would vote in. They won't do NIC as it stands but the majority of the group has been though too many mergers to not be reasonable.

However if the east goes back to 2002 rates or something in between, I don't know if there is a contract out there that Tempe would go for that could possibly be voted in prior to 2020 (meaning prior to 1600+ east retirements) So from that point of view, The majority will never ratify anything with NIC in it. The only way that will ever come to be will be if a court orders it and every concievable appeal has been exhausted. And a LOA 93 win would mean most of the east group would have zero incentive to ever vote for anything that would hurt their seniority in even the smallest degree. Right now most of the easties would be willing to compromise on something in the middle.

We are down to 2 options the way I see it. Figure out some way to meet in the middle or let the years long court battle play out. And yes I realize that the west does not really have a negotiating body right now. So we either start putting middle of the road stuff out and see if a T/A can get ratified by east and west, or we wait till whenever the courts figure it out.

I hear all the time in the crew room pilots saying that they fully expect to retire on LOA 93, and in the same breath they say they will never ever accept a NIC list. So we can either come up with something fresh and different, or more of the same till 2020 at least.

Let's say for argument sake there was desire and ability to negotiate what you call the middle. How do we know that you east pilots will live up to this agreement? You said you agreed to final and binding arbitration. what happens if the majority of east pilots don't like the next deal? You going to want to find a "new middle"? Where does it end?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Check Airmen have been told to expect 25 newhires a month starting in January.

Yeah, and back when Wolfe was trying to decide between the 737NG and A320, the head of the 737 training department said he'd been told by upper management that the decision had been made to get the 737NG's. Why anybody ever believes the training department rumors is beyond me...90% is stuff they heard from line pilots going in for training and the rest originates within the training department.

Jim