US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

Yet the westies got an outcome that is WAAAY beyond what was probable outside a merger and that's great for you.

Waiting on your apology, now to me and the former furloughees.

Yes, having to defend yourself against a RICO lawsuit filed by your own union is way beyond what was probable outside this merger.

Having to spend your own time and money defending what you are legally and ethically entittled to is way beyond what was probable outside this merger.

See post #23429.

 

[Move2CLT]

Pi, if you click on the underlined words it will take you to another website. That's normal.

 

[Pi brat]

Yes, having to defend yourself against a RICO lawsuit filed by your own union is way beyond what was probable outside this merger.

Having to spend your own time and money defending what you are legally and ethically entittled to is way beyond what was probable outside this merger.

See post #23429.

I fought against my union for the C18. As a non-member, what exactly did you do for them? As a non-member, who did you vote for in the officer election? You told me you had s29 filed against you. Was that ethical? Did you not know that was required of you?

 

[Pi brat]

As did you guys - you guys held onto your jobs.

Now I want an apology from you to me and only me.

Hey! Guess what!? We have something in common after all, as the merger helped you keep your job too. Small world, huh?

You will NEVER get an apology from me.

 

[Pi brat]

Interesting reading over at Wiki Pi. Thank goodness you east guys don't have the tech savvy to add your fantasy to the wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Airways

And chew on these numbers Pi:

http://www.getfilings.com/o0001193125-05-094239.html#toc24913_3

http://google.brand.edgar-online.com/EFX_dll/EDGARpro.dll?FetchFilingHTML1?ID=3983676&SessionID=Wm2WHC3uBsjc927

Thanks, I'll take a look. Are the merger projections vs reality in there? Did you chew on this one? http://www.getfilings.com/o0000950153-05-000517.html

Paints a little different picture than you guys paint of the period leading up to the merger, you know when they were planning it?

 

[Black Swan]

Because guys like you won't honor the result of the binding arbitration we agreed to.

Your statement makes absolutely no sense. How can anyone not "honor" a binding arbitration? You say it is binding, yet someone does not honor it, then it must not be binding, just an internal union dispute. Is it starting to be a little clearer to you? If it were binding, Leonidas would surely have in say 4 plus years now, made it happen. The simple answer? THEY CAN'T!


While the judge correctly concluded that USAPA is the successor to ALPA’s collective bargaining agreement, that in no way restricts USAPA from negotiating any and all terms of that agreement, including the Nicolau Award. The judge nowhere considers precedent, such as Association of Flight Attendants v. United Airlines and Association of Flight Attendants v. US Airways, which hold that a predecessor union’s collective bargaining agreement provides only the beginning point for a successor union’s negotiations and the successor is free to negotiate changes to the agreement. To do otherwise would perpetuate the rejected union as representative.

The court also wrongly held that USAPA is bound by the Nicolau Award as the product of ALPA Merger Policy. ALPA Merger Policy is only an internal union procedure. It is not part of the collective bargaining agreement with US Airways (even if it was, USAPA could still negotiate changes to it.) USAPA cannot be bound to ALPA Merger Policy since it is not ALPA, and only ALPA’s subordinate bodies, the Master Executive Councils (which, admittedly, are not real labor organizations) are bound to follow the Merger Policy. The Merger Policy has no standing under the Railway Labor Act and since USAPA’s successor obligations only exist under the RLA, they cannot include ALPA Merger Policy.

 

[Code Name V]

The East pilots who were furloughed before the merger stole the jobs of the West pilots who are furloughed now.

If the East had not reneged on the mutually agreeded upon seniority arbitration process those West pilots would be working today.

so the east guys that had 12 years seniority that got recalled due to east attrition took jobs that would have gone to the west even though no joint agreement had been voted on and accepted?

V

 

[Move2CLT]

Hey! Guess what!? We have something in common after all, as the merger helped you keep your job too. Small world, huh?

You will NEVER get an apology from me.

No, I would have had a job after 9/2005. You? Not so much. And in the worst case scenario I would have had a job for at least another 2-3 years. Bankruptcy can take a long time but you already know that. We weren't even close to filing C11.

You guys were living it.

Still waiting on your apology to me and only me.

 

[Claxon]

No, I would have had a job after 9/2005. You? Not so much. And in the worst case scenario I would have had a job for at least another 2-3 years. Bankruptcy can take a long time but you already know that. We weren't even close to filing C11.

You guys were living it.

Still waiting on your apology to me and only me.

Franke Air had several encounters with bankruptcy.This supposed western just missed out on some of the earlier fun. Franke Air always flirted with disaster, relying on the experiment of paying nothing and no benefits to make the Franke experiment a long lived nightmare for the rest of the industry. The western pilots hastened the bankruptcy for all the other good airlines, as they were a cancer that spread like a contagion, stealing thousands of jobs. Listen to him telling you bankruptcy can take a long time. He knows that, he planted the seeds of it long, long ago, it just took time for the misfortune of what he willingly worked for, because he could not be hired anywhere else, to spread. Avoid anything Franke Air offers. You see clearly how they willingly collaborate and work with Franke Air to get you an injunction. Then they expect you to accept their plan, and they will work with you , embrace you. When they embrace you? Franke Air hires will with one hand stab you in the back, while the other hand picks your pocket. NEVER, merge anything with them. They are one of the large reasons Franke Air is one of the worst, if not absolute worst companies in America.

 

[traderjake]

Your statement makes absolutely no sense. How can anyone not "honor" a binding arbitration? You say it is binding, yet someone does not honor it, then it must not be binding, just an internal union dispute.

Ratify a contract that does not contain the Nicolau award and we'll see if it's binding.

If it's just an internal union dispute what's taking you so long?

 

[Pi brat]

No, I would have had a job after 9/2005. You? Not so much. And in the worst case scenario I would have had a job for at least another 2-3 years. Bankruptcy can take a long time but you already know that. We weren't even close to filing C11.

You guys were living it.

Still waiting on your apology to me and only me.

So, maybe I we had shut down I would have gotten another job and 2-3 years you would be looking for one, maybe asking me for one! Now, we will probably be looking at the same time and that's not good for you. Ignorant, arrogant, and what I hear not much of a pilot.

 

[Pi brat]

If the case ever becomes ripe we'll see who is right.

Great answers today jake! Bravo, you have shown us at every turn.

Ripe or not, you're WRONG about anybody stealing anyone's job. AW.

 

[Black Swan]

Ratify a contract that does not contain the Nicolau award and we'll see if it's binding.

If it's just an internal union dispute what's taking you so long?

I would be more than happy to grant you a wish. Are you that misinformed to not know why it has take this long? Do you read any of the negotiating updates? Is the company actually willing to offer anything other that what you work under now? The answer is NO. But since you, MovetoArmageddon and ESPECIALLY BOEING BOY don't get it, still.... Let's quote the 9th Court of Appeals San Francisco s decision. And I don't give one crap about Tashima or Graber,(this is for you Aqua, because you trot the minority out as if it means anything..) because they are the MINORITY and lost the chance to be the deciding force. Here it is, read it again. Especially, BOEING BOY. Here is the DECISION, not the minority dissent. In case you don't understand what majority decision is BB, it means they make the rules.......



Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

One more time, for the trailer crowd..."EVEN IF THAT PROPOSAL IS NOT THE NICOLAU AWARD"
Wow Boeing Boy, Move2Armageddon, do you think if they said "EVEN IF THAT PROPOSAL IS NOT THE NICOLAU AWARD" They really meant, for Boeing Boy, "we didn't really mean this?" But let's continue with the 9ths RULING, not dissent....


[7] Plaintiffs correctly note that certain West Pilots have
been furloughed, whereas they would still be working under
a single CBA implementing the Nicolau Award. [7] Plaintiffs correctly note that certain West Pilots have
been furloughed, whereas they would still be working under
a single CBA implementing the Nicolau Award. It is, how-
ever, at best, speculative that a single CBA incorporating the
Nicolau Award would be ratified if presented to the union’s
membership. ALPA had been unable to broker a compromise
between the two pilot groups, and the East Pilots had
expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the
Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunc-
tion mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated. That the court cannot fashion a remedy

that will alleviate Plaintiffs’ harm suggests that the case is not
ripe.1
8008 ADDINGTON v. US AIRLINE PILOTS ASSOC.That the court cannot fashion a remedy

that will alleviate Plaintiffs’ harm suggests that the case is not
ripe.1
8008 ADDINGTON v. US AIRLINE PILOTS ASSOC.




Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ulti-
mately is. Because these contingencies make the claim specu-
lative, the issues are not yet fit for judicial decision.

 

[luvthe9]

Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ulti-
mately is. Because these contingencies make the claim specu-
lative, the issues are not yet fit for judicial decision.

Maybe around the year 2018 this might be close to getting settled. Come on LOA93 we need a win. B) B)

 

[traderjake]

I would be more than happy to grant you a wish. Are you that misinformed to not know why it has take this long? Do you read any of the negotiating updates? Is the company actually willing to offer anything other that what you work under now? The answer is NO.

You're union has no unity and no leverage, that's why nothing is happening.

I'll explain this to you one more time, it's the union's job to get a contract from the company, the company is not going to give us what we want because they're nice guys.