nevergiveup
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US Pilots Labor Discussion
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cleardirect
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Easy question. So no other group ever pulls the same BS the east pilots did. Why do we have FAR's? Because someone did something stupid. Reference B. Changing bargaining representation does not change your obligation. Agreement is binding on successors.
I wonder if this contract can be used in the next DFR as proof of intent.
CapnCockroach
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Organized crime??? Really???
Again an eastie shows his lack of situational awareness.
If we were dealing with "organized crime", the very first person who would have taken the trip to Hoffaville would have been Bradford, and Seeham would have woken up with the horses head in his bed, and, at this point there is no way we would have ever figured out what happened to Cleary.
Unionism has been driven backwards at LCC, thanks to the east pilots voting in the anti-union.
The IBT will tell you up front, and in no uncertain terms, it is the Nic at LCC. There is no way the IBT will say, sure, we will represent all LCC pilots, and just walk right into the unquestionably ripe DFR.
Oh, and in the context of this thread, the Nic will be used in any merger, fragmentation, asset sale, or any other corporate transaction involving "Airline Parties". So, even the APA would end up telling you it is the Nic, not seperate list, or even a threeway.
prechilill
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And nothing will change, especially your level of understanding of the real world. So, vote in Teamsters and pick up thumb sucking while you are at it, all you will need then is a blankey to lay your tired old head on for your afternoon nap...
Picture complete.
Enjoy your (retirement) contract my friend.
Al Legheny
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You are actually correct, it is not "fradulent" but it is not final and binding either. Even your ole pal Jeffrey Fruend says so...
In the DC Distric Court, filed on 7/24/2007, in an action between the US Airways ALPA MEC and the AWA ALPA MEC, just a few months after the Nicolau award had been awarded Jeff stated:
The "arbitration award" plaintiffs seek to "vacate" is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed thruough ALPA merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the company, but which (like a union position on any matter) the company is not required to accept."
Later in the brief he stated;
"Plaintiff's application to "vacate"an "arbitration award" that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the company but merely sets out ALPA's bargaining position to be presented to the company"
BoeingBoy
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"filed on 7/24/2007":
"...that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the company, but which (like a union position on any matter) the company is not required to accept."
And what happened after that date? Did or did not the company accept the ALPA SLI "bargaining position", Al? I do believe that the company did in fact accept the "bargaining position", at which point it ceased to be a "bargaining position".
Of course, you also make the mistake of claiming that the "final and binding" in the merger policy includes the company. It does not, it only includes the parties subject to the SLI arbitration. The company isn't bound or required to accept the arbitrator's ruling till it accepts that ruling and agrees that the ruling will govern seniority under the contract, as in any other contract provision.
Frankly, it's hard to see how supposedly intelligent people can come up with some of this stuff. Desperation causes people to do odd things I guess and the east is definitely desperate to find something - anything - to support getting out of the Nic, even if they have to make it up, ignore context, etc.
Jim
"...that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the company, but which (like a union position on any matter) the company is not required to accept."
And what happened after that date? Did or did not the company accept the ALPA SLI "bargaining position", Al? I do believe that the company did in fact accept the "bargaining position", at which point it ceased to be a "bargaining position".
Of course, you also make the mistake of claiming that the "final and binding" in the merger policy includes the company. It does not, it only includes the parties subject to the SLI arbitration. The company isn't bound or required to accept the arbitrator's ruling till it accepts that ruling and agrees that the ruling will govern seniority under the contract, as in any other contract provision.
Frankly, it's hard to see how supposedly intelligent people can come up with some of this stuff. Desperation causes people to do odd things I guess and the east is definitely desperate to find something - anything - to support getting out of the Nic, even if they have to make it up, ignore context, etc.
Jim
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Compass Correction Update (Cleary Fires Seham): October 19, 2011
Dear USAPA Members,
President Cleary recently decided to fire the law firm, Seham, Seham, Meltz & Peterson without consulting the Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR.)
This law firm has been the General Counsel for USAPA since before it officially existed (see letter below.) Their lead attorney, Lee Seham, is one of the best Railway Labor Act (RLA) lawyers in the country. The reason for this abrupt termination has been branded as “billing irregularities.” While we have good reason to doubt that claim, if there are billing issues – it’s a failure by the National Officers to audit billing and a failure of BPR “due diligence” to oversee and control our union’s business. Bottom line: it’s the job of the BPR to hire and fire attorneys – not Mike Cleary.
To replace Lee Seham, President Cleary has “hired” a replacement law firm which bills us at $400 per hour! That’s almost DOUBLE what Seham charged! This new firm stays at first class hotels – recently billing USAPA at $350 per night for accommodations at the downtown CLT Westin. President Cleary took this action without any required BPR discussion or approval; no agenda item, no debate, no resolution, no line pilot input, no vote by the BPR. Absolutely no compliance with the constitutionally required process. In essence, he’s thumbing his nose at every single line pilot out there.
Now, after this irrationally impulsive move, we find ourselves going to court in Phoenix in 2 months.
We will be in Judge Silver’s courtroom to protect your seniority without the benefit of Lee Seham’s intimate knowledge and experience specifically related to this case. Hopefully, the new firm can, and will, burn the midnight oil getting up to speed in time to do a credible job.
But how much will this “education” cost USAPA? How do we know if this firm has the depth of experience and knowledge of Labor Law much less what Lee Seham experientially brought to our case? The predicament in which we now find ourselves is a result of Mike Cleary’s unconstitutional and ill-considered act; less a “decision” and more the predictable Cleary “impulse.”
The blame for this rests clearly on the Board of Pilot Representatives. They have either been lax in their duties (with some notable exceptions) or they have been corrupted by President Cleary handing out cushy Flight Pay Loss appointments with time off for the FOM (Friends of Mike). Why is the BPR willing to look the other way and avoid confrontation when Cleary fails to follow the Constitution? This disregard for union procedures has placed our entire membership, East and West, in jeopardy. And make no mistake: it places all of us in jeopardy if there is a corporate transaction (think merger).
But don’t worry; the BPR is coming back to power! Why, just recently, during their fall meeting, President Cleary let them debate and vote on the weighty decision as to which Wireless Communications Carrier USAPA would use!
A concentration of power with the very few has always led to failure. The arrogance of power and the assumption of privilege by the power hungry has historically been the sure-fire recipe for the destruction of ideas, movements, empires and people. Why can’t we learn?
USAPA was conceived as a representational organization whose legitimacy rested completely upon the concept that the Line Pilot was King since they are the “owners” paying for everything.
Ideas for change, resolutions and the causes to be fought for were to originate from the line pilot and acted upon by the BPR (our “Board of Directors” if you will.) With this focal input from line pilots, the BPRs job was to act on this guidance, meet to debate, work to consensus, and vote on resolutions to put the line pilot’s wishes and best interests at the forefront and into action.
The Officers were to have been executives; that means they are to EXECUTE the DIRECTIVES of the Line Pilots, as conveyed to them through their Representatives on the Board. Specifically, the National Officers were intended to EXECUTE the will of the pilots via the BPR. This was all designed to PREVENT any one person from imposing and/or initiating personal unilateral strategies. THE PRESIDENT OF USAPA IS NOT TO HAVE A VOTE either directly, or through his cronies on the Board.
Fellow pilots, our union is broken. The process is suffering under an over controlling, selfish, scheming and domineering President – an acting dictator. It’s long past time for the BPR to take control of USAPA. National Officers and the BPR must follow the Constitution and By-Laws – all the time – every time. With the firing of our lead attorney without BPR approval – the President has placed this union, its membership, and its goals at risk and in great peril.
Remember, this union has a responsibility to communicate the union’s business to you. Do you really want to see more “copying and pasting” from articles you’ve already read elsewhere, or do you want real information about what’s going on with your dues dollars? How ARE they doing with communications?
It’s wonderful for everyone to “just get along.” But that becomes devastating when certain leaders take advantage of the trust placed in them. Politically, it becomes more important than “playing by the rules” and it costs each - and every one - of us. If anyone wants “sole-authority,” let them pay all the costs and see how long they last.
It’s time for some accountability!
Fraternally,
Rich Wargin
B-737 CLT
Jed Thomas
AB-320 PHL
Note: The Date on the letter below from President Cleary is dated the day before the beginning of USAPA’s Fall Board of Pilot Repetitive Meeting in Charlotte.
October 3, 2011
Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP
445 Hamilton Avenue, Suite 1204
White Plains, New York 10601
Via email and Certified Mail Return Receipt
Dear Mr. Meltz:
As you no doubt are already aware, the Board of Pilot Representatives has approved a Resolution establishing a process for auditing legal bills including those from your firm. As I indicated in my previous letter, the process is neutral and impartial and will preserve the attorney-client and other privileges with respect to information necessary to complete the audit. The Board has directed all counsel to cooperate with Sarah McShea who has been retained as special counsel for the purpose of the audit and the accounting firm of Holtz, Rubenstein and Reminick who will work under her direction and control. A copy of the resolution is enclosed. I expect that Ms. McShea will be contacting you in the near future. I trust that you will cooperate with her and respond to whatever request she may make as directed by the BPR in the Resolution and, in any event, will do so more promptly than you have not to the requests made in my September 6 letter.
Again, I am compelled to note that there is absolutely no truth to the baseless allegations in your letter that the audit “is motivated by animosity related to personal considerations.” The Resolution I proposed and that the BPR adopted completely undercuts these allegations and I ask that you refrain from continuing to repeat them.
I confirm that your firm does not act as general counsel and that you have no continuing responsibility with respect to either the Merger Committee or the Safety Committee.
I repeat the instructions stated in my September 15 letter. Namely, please send me a list identifying all matters your firm is handling on behalf of USAPA, including the identity theft investigation. For each matter, please summarize the current status of the matter, the anticipated next steps and an estimate of the cost for those next steps. All bills submitted from this point forward must include the date of the services or expenses incurred, a concise and accurate description of the services including time spent and the person performing the services, and the cost. All expenses must be supported by receipts or other generally accepted contemporaneous written records. All properly submitted and supported bills for services and expenses will be paid in the normal course of business.
Please confirm that you have received, understand and will comply with these instructions and please promptly supply the information requested about all matters your firm is currently handling on behalf of USAPA.
Very truly yours,
Michael Cleary
President, US Airline Pilots Association
BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives directs and authorizes the conduct of an independent audit of all transactions between USAPA and the law firms and lawyers retained and paid by USAPA. The President and Secretary-Treasurer are authorized to engage Sarah Diane McShea as special counsel to conduct the audit and to report to USAPA’s Board of Pilot Representatives and the President and Secretary Treasurer as to whether the billings were accurate and the payments properly made. As special counsel, Ms. McShea shall insure that the attorney-client privilege is maintained with respect to any information necessary to audit the bills and payments. Ms. McShea is authorized to retain (on terms approved by the President and Secretary-Treasurer and the Board) the accounting firm of Holtz, Rubenstein and Reminick to function under her direction in conducting the audit. The President and Secretary-Treasurer shall promptly present appropriate retainer agreements with Ms. McShea and with Holtz, Rubenstein and Reminick to the Board for approval.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives directs its officers, employees and agents, including the law firms and lawyers engaged and paid by USAPA to cooperate in the conduct of the audit and to provide whatever information Ms. McShea believes is necessary to complete the audit.
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED THAT Ms. McShea shall have independent authority to take all action necessary and appropriate to complete the audit and that no Officer, employee or agent of USAPA shall interfere with the conduct of the audit. Ms. McShea shall keep the Board of Pilot Representatives and Officers informed of the progress of the audit, including its cost, and shall provide interim reports to the Board of Pilot Representatives and Officers as she sees fit. The audit may be terminated prior to its conclusion only by action of the Board of Pilot Representatives and then only after consultation with Ms. McShea. The final report shall recommend whatever additional action, if any, that Ms. McShea thinks is appropriate.
Dear USAPA Members,
President Cleary recently decided to fire the law firm, Seham, Seham, Meltz & Peterson without consulting the Board of Pilot Representatives (BPR.)
This law firm has been the General Counsel for USAPA since before it officially existed (see letter below.) Their lead attorney, Lee Seham, is one of the best Railway Labor Act (RLA) lawyers in the country. The reason for this abrupt termination has been branded as “billing irregularities.” While we have good reason to doubt that claim, if there are billing issues – it’s a failure by the National Officers to audit billing and a failure of BPR “due diligence” to oversee and control our union’s business. Bottom line: it’s the job of the BPR to hire and fire attorneys – not Mike Cleary.
To replace Lee Seham, President Cleary has “hired” a replacement law firm which bills us at $400 per hour! That’s almost DOUBLE what Seham charged! This new firm stays at first class hotels – recently billing USAPA at $350 per night for accommodations at the downtown CLT Westin. President Cleary took this action without any required BPR discussion or approval; no agenda item, no debate, no resolution, no line pilot input, no vote by the BPR. Absolutely no compliance with the constitutionally required process. In essence, he’s thumbing his nose at every single line pilot out there.
Now, after this irrationally impulsive move, we find ourselves going to court in Phoenix in 2 months.
We will be in Judge Silver’s courtroom to protect your seniority without the benefit of Lee Seham’s intimate knowledge and experience specifically related to this case. Hopefully, the new firm can, and will, burn the midnight oil getting up to speed in time to do a credible job.
But how much will this “education” cost USAPA? How do we know if this firm has the depth of experience and knowledge of Labor Law much less what Lee Seham experientially brought to our case? The predicament in which we now find ourselves is a result of Mike Cleary’s unconstitutional and ill-considered act; less a “decision” and more the predictable Cleary “impulse.”
The blame for this rests clearly on the Board of Pilot Representatives. They have either been lax in their duties (with some notable exceptions) or they have been corrupted by President Cleary handing out cushy Flight Pay Loss appointments with time off for the FOM (Friends of Mike). Why is the BPR willing to look the other way and avoid confrontation when Cleary fails to follow the Constitution? This disregard for union procedures has placed our entire membership, East and West, in jeopardy. And make no mistake: it places all of us in jeopardy if there is a corporate transaction (think merger).
But don’t worry; the BPR is coming back to power! Why, just recently, during their fall meeting, President Cleary let them debate and vote on the weighty decision as to which Wireless Communications Carrier USAPA would use!
A concentration of power with the very few has always led to failure. The arrogance of power and the assumption of privilege by the power hungry has historically been the sure-fire recipe for the destruction of ideas, movements, empires and people. Why can’t we learn?
USAPA was conceived as a representational organization whose legitimacy rested completely upon the concept that the Line Pilot was King since they are the “owners” paying for everything.
Ideas for change, resolutions and the causes to be fought for were to originate from the line pilot and acted upon by the BPR (our “Board of Directors” if you will.) With this focal input from line pilots, the BPRs job was to act on this guidance, meet to debate, work to consensus, and vote on resolutions to put the line pilot’s wishes and best interests at the forefront and into action.
The Officers were to have been executives; that means they are to EXECUTE the DIRECTIVES of the Line Pilots, as conveyed to them through their Representatives on the Board. Specifically, the National Officers were intended to EXECUTE the will of the pilots via the BPR. This was all designed to PREVENT any one person from imposing and/or initiating personal unilateral strategies. THE PRESIDENT OF USAPA IS NOT TO HAVE A VOTE either directly, or through his cronies on the Board.
Fellow pilots, our union is broken. The process is suffering under an over controlling, selfish, scheming and domineering President – an acting dictator. It’s long past time for the BPR to take control of USAPA. National Officers and the BPR must follow the Constitution and By-Laws – all the time – every time. With the firing of our lead attorney without BPR approval – the President has placed this union, its membership, and its goals at risk and in great peril.
Remember, this union has a responsibility to communicate the union’s business to you. Do you really want to see more “copying and pasting” from articles you’ve already read elsewhere, or do you want real information about what’s going on with your dues dollars? How ARE they doing with communications?
It’s wonderful for everyone to “just get along.” But that becomes devastating when certain leaders take advantage of the trust placed in them. Politically, it becomes more important than “playing by the rules” and it costs each - and every one - of us. If anyone wants “sole-authority,” let them pay all the costs and see how long they last.
It’s time for some accountability!
Fraternally,
Rich Wargin
B-737 CLT
Jed Thomas
AB-320 PHL
Note: The Date on the letter below from President Cleary is dated the day before the beginning of USAPA’s Fall Board of Pilot Repetitive Meeting in Charlotte.
October 3, 2011
Seham, Seham, Meltz & Petersen, LLP
445 Hamilton Avenue, Suite 1204
White Plains, New York 10601
Via email and Certified Mail Return Receipt
Dear Mr. Meltz:
As you no doubt are already aware, the Board of Pilot Representatives has approved a Resolution establishing a process for auditing legal bills including those from your firm. As I indicated in my previous letter, the process is neutral and impartial and will preserve the attorney-client and other privileges with respect to information necessary to complete the audit. The Board has directed all counsel to cooperate with Sarah McShea who has been retained as special counsel for the purpose of the audit and the accounting firm of Holtz, Rubenstein and Reminick who will work under her direction and control. A copy of the resolution is enclosed. I expect that Ms. McShea will be contacting you in the near future. I trust that you will cooperate with her and respond to whatever request she may make as directed by the BPR in the Resolution and, in any event, will do so more promptly than you have not to the requests made in my September 6 letter.
Again, I am compelled to note that there is absolutely no truth to the baseless allegations in your letter that the audit “is motivated by animosity related to personal considerations.” The Resolution I proposed and that the BPR adopted completely undercuts these allegations and I ask that you refrain from continuing to repeat them.
I confirm that your firm does not act as general counsel and that you have no continuing responsibility with respect to either the Merger Committee or the Safety Committee.
I repeat the instructions stated in my September 15 letter. Namely, please send me a list identifying all matters your firm is handling on behalf of USAPA, including the identity theft investigation. For each matter, please summarize the current status of the matter, the anticipated next steps and an estimate of the cost for those next steps. All bills submitted from this point forward must include the date of the services or expenses incurred, a concise and accurate description of the services including time spent and the person performing the services, and the cost. All expenses must be supported by receipts or other generally accepted contemporaneous written records. All properly submitted and supported bills for services and expenses will be paid in the normal course of business.
Please confirm that you have received, understand and will comply with these instructions and please promptly supply the information requested about all matters your firm is currently handling on behalf of USAPA.
Very truly yours,
Michael Cleary
President, US Airline Pilots Association
BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives directs and authorizes the conduct of an independent audit of all transactions between USAPA and the law firms and lawyers retained and paid by USAPA. The President and Secretary-Treasurer are authorized to engage Sarah Diane McShea as special counsel to conduct the audit and to report to USAPA’s Board of Pilot Representatives and the President and Secretary Treasurer as to whether the billings were accurate and the payments properly made. As special counsel, Ms. McShea shall insure that the attorney-client privilege is maintained with respect to any information necessary to audit the bills and payments. Ms. McShea is authorized to retain (on terms approved by the President and Secretary-Treasurer and the Board) the accounting firm of Holtz, Rubenstein and Reminick to function under her direction in conducting the audit. The President and Secretary-Treasurer shall promptly present appropriate retainer agreements with Ms. McShea and with Holtz, Rubenstein and Reminick to the Board for approval.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives directs its officers, employees and agents, including the law firms and lawyers engaged and paid by USAPA to cooperate in the conduct of the audit and to provide whatever information Ms. McShea believes is necessary to complete the audit.
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED THAT Ms. McShea shall have independent authority to take all action necessary and appropriate to complete the audit and that no Officer, employee or agent of USAPA shall interfere with the conduct of the audit. Ms. McShea shall keep the Board of Pilot Representatives and Officers informed of the progress of the audit, including its cost, and shall provide interim reports to the Board of Pilot Representatives and Officers as she sees fit. The audit may be terminated prior to its conclusion only by action of the Board of Pilot Representatives and then only after consultation with Ms. McShea. The final report shall recommend whatever additional action, if any, that Ms. McShea thinks is appropriate.
Res Judicata
Veteran
Why do these Idiots keep ignoring the Transition Agreement as if it's not an issue? It's the ONLY issue and it's the primary blockade to any Non-Nic/DOH scheme. If the DJ gives the company a pass, it just paves the way to DFR 2.0 which will be "unquestionably ripe". These concepts are really quite easy to understand. The playing dumb act is getting really old. Even Kirby gets the act, he said in CLT crew news, "everybody in this room knows there was an illegal job action" and when another moron tried to say the real issues were "executive compensation" Kirby responded, "I think we all know the real issue here is the seniority dispute".
They fool absolutely no one and it just makes them sound like idiots when they purposefully ignore the facts everybody else sees staring them in the face.
aquagreen73s
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Maybe Rich and Jed should learn how to comprehend what they read. Seham hasn't been "fired," he's no longer general counsel - there's a difference. Right now Seham will be going to court on December 1st (can't wait!). 
He sure does!
Reed Richards
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Maybe Rich and Jed should learn how to comprehend what they read. Seham hasn't been "fired," he's no longer general counsel - there's a difference. Right now Seham will be going to court on December 1st (can't wait!).
They comprehend just fine. Seham is fired. He is also not being paid, following trumped up accusations of theft by Rocky and Bullwinkle.
I am sure he or his rep will be there December 1st. Since you seem to have a handle on all things USAPA, what do you think he will be saying to Judge Silver?
RR
BoeingBoy
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It's a tangled web they weave trying to convince themselves that the Nic is DOA. "It was only a proposal" - yes, until presented to and accepted by the company as meeting the conditions set out in the transition agreement. At that point it became the SLI of the pilots of LCC. "But SCOTUS said USAPA only has to negotiate a SLI that's "reasonable yada, yada, yada" - yes, if USAPA hadn't inherited the SLI from ALPA. But USAPA wants to change the Nic it inherited - different standard - at the least a change has to promote the interests of unionism to the benefit of all members. NOT take from one group so another group can have more. Then there's the TA - which binds the company contractually (not to ALPA merger policy but to the result of that policy since ALPA was the CBA for the entire SLI process). Why else is the company in court seeking a DJ? (Oh, there goes that "delay negotiations" straw floating by - grab it quick") To have a judge rule whether the company is indeed contractually committed to the Nic by the TA and for no other reason. After escaping being dragged into the seniority mess in Addington, the last thing the company wants is to voluntarily put themselves in the legal liability bullseye.
Jim
Jim
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I think you need to talk to the IBT about their stance in regards to unionism. You will find that they also deal with a DOH agenda and they understand it far better than you do.
Sorry but your Nic will stay buried, regardless of what you think.
V
kubotapilot
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latest buzz on LOA 93:
This from a very reliable insider, sworn to secrecy of course (but how come these sources always break secrecy???0) said that the arbitrator has called the Company and the Union, and showed them the preliminary decision favoring the Union. A/B C/O's would go to around $154/hr, plus backpay, plus 401k deposits, etc ... the $154/hr is based on a rate increase of 18% b/c of bla, bla, bla, bla, and other stuff that i did not understand.
the Company supposedly said that it needed more time to absorb the news, as to which the mighty referee allegedly replied "you've had plenty of time to expect this, so deal w/ it already!!! ".
official news supposed to come out at the end of this month.
Please understand that this information did NOT come from Ch#p M#n#, so it might actually have the possibility of being somewhat true!
This from a very reliable insider, sworn to secrecy of course (but how come these sources always break secrecy???0) said that the arbitrator has called the Company and the Union, and showed them the preliminary decision favoring the Union. A/B C/O's would go to around $154/hr, plus backpay, plus 401k deposits, etc ... the $154/hr is based on a rate increase of 18% b/c of bla, bla, bla, bla, and other stuff that i did not understand.
the Company supposedly said that it needed more time to absorb the news, as to which the mighty referee allegedly replied "you've had plenty of time to expect this, so deal w/ it already!!! ".
official news supposed to come out at the end of this month.
Please understand that this information did NOT come from Ch#p M#n#, so it might actually have the possibility of being somewhat true!
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