US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Black Swan]

They comprehend just fine. Seham is fired. He is also not being paid, following trumped up accusations of theft by Rocky and Bullwinkle.

I am sure he or his rep will be there December 1st. Since you seem to have a handle on all things USAPA, what do you think he will be saying to Judge Silver?

RR

Silver will be made aware of the reality of what the 9th said, or she will suffer a painfully ripe spanking just like the first Desert Judge got.

 

[Res Judicata]

Just curious, How many tens of thousands of dollars did the USLAPPY scab idiots just waste to "clarify" the Permanent Injunction? How have these professional airline pilots survive all these decades? Do they have even a basic understanding of their job responsibilities? Of course they do, this is just one of fifty billion childish examples of the incompetent scab leadership. Just like the bible thumping hillbilly from the CLT crew news....he's not sure if he is supposed to fly a dangerous aircraft or not. He just doesn't know WHAT to do. I'd expect these infantile play dumb antics from a group of 3rd graders, not from the supreme leaders of the "most democratic union in history"

You guys are frigging embarrassments to the profession. Grow up. Actually, nevermind. Keep up the good work. USCABA will be BK in no time with this kind of pointless, $400.00/hr behavior.

 

[cleardirect]

Silver will be made aware of the reality of what the 9th said, or she will suffer a painfully ripe spanking just like the first Desert Judge got.

How about getting a clue. Read the transcripts and the judges orders. She is very aware of what the ninth said. She still found the DJ ripe and is going ahead.

THE COURT: All right. Counsel, this is not an easy one for me, as you know by the questions I have posed. Generally, when I have oral argument, I provide you a proposed opinion. I was unable to do so in this case. Let's start with this. You do not need to repeat the facts. I am more than well-acquainted with what happened previously and what happened in the Ninth Circuit. Very simply, how is this case any different now that we have – this is in the posture of a declaratory judgment action?

THE COURT: And I also -- the decision from the Ninth Circuit was last summer. Are there any cases that will help you, assist you in persuading me that this court in the Ninth Circuit, and we do have a dissent, which certainly I'm sure you would like for me to embrace, but I am bound by the Ninth Circuit law and we all know that.

THE COURT: What would you have argued to the Ninth Circuit had you been a party? You're in front of the Ninth Circuit now. What would you have argued that would change the complexion of the case? It seems to me, as I've read the case again and again, that the majority opinion was -- they were adamant about taking the position, which is supported by the case law, that they are to defer where there are collective bargaining agreement negotiations. So they were just going to keep away from that no matter what. No question the Court embraced the issue that there was harm to the West Pilots. That was clear.

THE COURT: I gotcha. Now, let me ask you the other question, that is, what's happening in the collective bargaining negotiations and why do you think that it's not possible that this will get resolved? I know what the issues were before the Ninth Circuit and certainly I know the Ninth Circuit was troubled with it. I know the dissent was troubled with this case because it seemed like it perhaps wouldn't be resolved

THE COURT: Well, certainly as far as Judge Wake was concerned, and that may not have been advisable as part of the company was concerned, but, you know, I have combed the record before the Ninth Circuit to look for anything

THE COURT: But isn't that the very point they are making is that -- I asked them why didn't they. But they didn't. You may be right that they should have. It would be helpful for me. I wouldn't have this case in front of me right now. Maybe they should have, maybe they could have, maybe Judge Wake at least implicitly ruled that they should have or that they didn't have a basis to do so. But the Ninth Circuit is the opinion I'm looking at, and the Ninth Circuit didn't consider that.

15 MR. SEHAM: Now, maybe that is not the lottery ticket that they had under Nicolau, but the Ninth Circuit has essentially found, in terms of finding no injury, that that was a lottery ticket they never could have cashed in. And this is our approach to the West Pilots.

THE COURT: Well, I'm not so sure I would go so far as to say that. I don't think that the Ninth Circuit reached that.

 

[Move2CLT]

Nominations for national officers are coming up. I'm putting Cleary's name in the hat.

He's done so much to help the west that I'd like to keep him on until 2015.

Have all you easties read the FAQ on how to write up aircraft and call in sick? And don't worry, USAPA is spending a crapload more on dues money with there latest motion for clarification.

This new law firm is off to the billable hours races!!!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Would you even know a fact if it walked up and slapped you in the face?
.

Try this one, "For you to insult me, I must first value your opinion." MM!

 

[john john]

So they can operate the 330s with West pilots if USAPA ever tries to strike over a DOH contract.

Whipsawing the shiny new 330 and who would fly the 330 for the west the most jr. pilot. Doesn’t the west go by DOH for upgrades and biding like every other employee group?

 

[Reed Richards]

Nominations for national officers are coming up. I'm putting Cleary's name in the hat.

He's done so much to help the west that I'd like to keep him on until 2015.

Have all you easties read the FAQ on how to write up aircraft and call in sick? And don't worry, USAPA is spending a crapload more on dues money with there latest motion for clarification.

This new law firm is off to the billable hours races!!!

Not an original thought in your little head, just bile from others you think will shock us all. Yawn.

Cleary has indeed done some good work for the West case, but just like Addington it is now wasted effort. Re elected or not, he will be of little consequence to East pilots past next March.

DFR II will probably never happen, a distant memory now that the two groups will never be unified. You might have a new DFR based on coming changes to the Transition Agreement, but good luck with that. USAPA will probably not even exist by the time that ever surfaces, and I will be long retired.

You continue to cut off your nose.... In the new three way (now I am hearing four way) part of your own interests will indeed be represented by USAPA. You seem to want USAPA to fail so much you continue to ignore the fact Cleary might have a lot of input into how West things go down. Why don't you re elect him, so he can continue to shower his good graces on you. How has that worked out? Or not, so you can show us who is boss.

How about this, see if you can come up with one original thought or cognitive paragraph with something other than troll snippets? I would think a Captain, Check Airman, Grievance Chair, philosopher like your self could do that just once? I doubt it.

RR

 

[Move2CLT]

Wow RR, quite the pissy one aren't you.

Sounds like things are falling apart in your world. I guess with Cleary's reelection inevitable and the the prospect of getting off LOA93 a distant memory, I'd be miserable too.

And why would reelecting Cleary mean I want USAPA to fail? Have you lost faith in your dear leader? LMAO.

Like you said, he's done some great things for our pilots and he should stick around another three years.

How about this, see if you can come up with an original post instead of your perpetual crying.

 

[prechilill]

Not an original thought in your little head, just bile from others you think will shock us all. Yawn.

Cleary has indeed done some good work for the West case, but just like Addington it is now wasted effort. Re elected or not, he will be of little consequence to East pilots past next March.

DFR II will probably never happen, a distant memory now that the two groups will never be unified. You might have a new DFR based on coming changes to the Transition Agreement, but good luck with that. USAPA will probably not even exist by the time that ever surfaces, and I will be long retired.

You continue to cut off your nose.... In the new three way (now I am hearing four way) part of your own interests will indeed be represented by USAPA. You seem to want USAPA to fail so much you continue to ignore the fact Cleary might have a lot of input into how West things go down. Why don't you re elect him, so he can continue to shower his good graces on you. How has that worked out? Or not, so you can show us who is boss.

How about this, see if you can come up with one original thought or cognitive paragraph with something other than troll snippets? I would think a Captain, Check Airman, Grievance Chair, philosopher like your self could do that just once? I doubt it.

RR

Reed, soon your frustrations will be over and you will be well on to the road of acceptance that NIcolau (or it's equivalent) is the combined list

 

[USA320Pilot]

The misunderstanding by East pilots is that if USAPA wins the DJ case DOH still may not exist. If seniority is negotiable like crew meals, which I believe it is not, than the union would have to negotiate with management for a seniority list. This negotiation could use negotiating capital by the NAC. What would and how much would USAPA be willing to give up to obtain DOH? Could management use seniority negotiations; along with the Preliminary Injunction, as a discipline tool to make problem Captains Co-pilots? Could pilots who create problems for the company in the cockpit, with Crew Scheduling or on message boards have their seniority reduced as a discipline tool?

If USAPA wins the DJ lawsuit it still must get management to agree to DOH. But, let's not forget Judge Silver said in her motion to deny USAPA's petition to dismiss the DJ case, "No question the [9th] embraced the issue that there was harm to the West Pilots."

Meanwhile, the merry go round goes round-and-round with US Airways' pilots the lowest in the industry with increased pressure to hold down labor costs.

According to the Reuters, "Airlines industry wide are closely watching the outcome of the American negotiations and where the two sides might find common ground. The head of APA's rival union, Lee Moak of the Air Line Pilots Association, told Reuters on Tuesday that any pilot agreement at American could impact talks at the other big carriers. Officials at United Airlines and US Airways Group Inc said in response they were watching events at American closely."

Click here to read the story.

I believe if AMR extracts large concessions from APA and remains independent that is likely going to weigh on new contract talks at Delta, United Continental, and US Airways. With pattern bargaining and USAPA's inexperienced NAC; coupled with Professional Negotiator Scott Peterson's law firm (Seham, Seham, Meltz, & Peterson) no longer working for USAPA, the union's negotiators may have once again missed an opportunity to negotiate a new contract. Thus, US Airways' pilots could be working under C2004/LOA 93 for a long time once the DJ lawsuit is settled. Another missed opportunity by the UELs?

However, I believe starting on December 1 in U.S. District Court, the next hearing will be held that will lead to the Nicolau Award being implemented. What will USAPA have accomplished since April 18, 2008? Nothing except hurting all of US Airways' stakeholders: Stockholders, Employees, Customers, and all pilots - both those based east of the Mississippi River and in PHX.

 

[aquagreen73s]

In other words, all roads lead to the Nicolau.

 

[USA320Pilot]

“The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.” – F. Scott Fitzgerald

 

[Phoenix]

In other words, all roads lead to the Nicolau.

He also projected that Wolf's UTC with United was a done deal. All roads lead to United, so to speak. Put all your money on lucky 13 and throw the dice!!

 

[luvn737s]

According to the Reuters, "Airlines industry wide are closely watching the outcome of the American negotiations and where the two sides might find common ground.

It's a bizarre state of affairs when the threat of being tied to a pilot group (east) is enough incentive to make an entire airline (AMR) consider deep concessions in order to avoid it. No one wants to be stuck with that rusty needle (from an Iron Compass, no doubt).

What the confuses the east IMHO, is the difference between how a union can behave during the seniority integration process and after the integration process. That is why seniority is not like a crew meal. Once a combined contract is in place, then a union probably can be directed by majority rule, so long as one particular and autonomous portion(or individual for that matter) of the union is not singled out to be discriminated against. That's why unions are loathe to get involved when the parties can't agree and prefer to let a neutral third party decide.

Which is exactly how the Nic came about.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

He also projected that Wolf's UTC with United was a done deal. All roads lead to United, so to speak. Put all your money on lucky 13 and throw the dice!!

I believe, However I believe, I believe, insert quote by F. SCOTT FITZ, check his bio out, ouch! Highly lauded as a writer, Fitzgerald was often mired in debt because of his and Zelda's lavish lifestyle, living beyond their means,The Fitzgeralds honeymooned at the Biltmore Hotel but were asked to leave because of what would become a pattern, their notoriously raucous parties. They settled at a home in Westport, Connecticut and continued the lifestyle of the rich and famous, constantly entertaining. Zelda was flirtatious, Fitzgerald was jealous, and it was the beginning of a turbulent life together, Zelda embraced the flapper lifestyle dressing provocatively and smoking cigarettes, and she and her husband enjoyed the free-thinking, hedonistic pursuits of the roaring twenties when the post-war American economy was booming. Although it was a time of prohibition, there was no deficit of alcohol in the Fitzgerald household. Sounds Like a great guy to quote also!