US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Maybe next month, I'm still on leave of absense.

Good for you!, Take your umbrella! See ya next month!

 

[nycbusdriver]

Instead of firing Seham, the union should have fired Kasher, a year ago, for taking too long.

I'm getting sick of waiting for this guy, too. Why do the millionaire football players jump to the head of the line? (Oops! Just answered my own question.)

Anyway, if he come up with back pay, it really doesn't matter how long he takes.

But I am tired of waiting on him to get off the dime.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I'm getting sick of waiting for this guy, too. Why do the millionaire football players jump to the head of the line? (Oops! Just answered my own question.)

I did some research on Mr Kasher and he is very highly regarded and in great demand as a result. Win or Lose at least you have a decision from one of the best available.

Anyway, if he come up with back pay, it really doesn't matter how long he takes.

But I am tired of waiting on him to get off the dime.

I'm sure everyone who reads or posts here shares your frustration with the snail like pace of things to date. A resolution would be welcomed by all just not for the same reasons.

 

[Res Judicata]

I did some research on Mr Kasher and he is very highly regarded and in great demand as a result. Win or Lose at least you have a decision from one of the best available

You MUST be joking! George Nicolau is very highly regarded too. Watch how fast Kasher goes from being respected to "senile" when he hands USCAB their own asses.

 

[Res Judicata]

The company is trying to prevail on a legal concept in contract law known as "mutual mistake". The company is claiming both sides negotiated and agreed that there would be no expiration to the pay freeze. USAPA is claiming the pay freeze expiration was discussed extensively during negotiations and that both the company and ALPA agreed to a pay freeze expiration date.

Right. Let me offer you some much needed reality.

http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/OpeningStatementExtracts.pdf

This is testimony fromYOUR OWN REPS who were DIRECTLY involved in all things LOA93.

Id suggest you stop spreading outright lies. The landing is going to be hard enough...no reason to make everyone keep climbing.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Maybe next month, I'm still on leave of absense.

Indeed, away from sense? Though, another month of no sense? After how many years? Judging by your history I am not so certain you, in particular, are able to turn sense (intelligence?) on or off like that.

 

[traderjake]

What a bunch of "nonsence".

 

[cleardirect]

The 2 year number was quoted by a west guy. If your question is about the large group of guys that were hired from 88 to 2000. It is a whole lot longer than 2 years.

Incorrect again. The 2 year delay number came from your own numbers guy. It was part of the pretty waterfall presentation to ALPA. The one where they invented the term "captain years"

Top of your chart:

Name unmerged merged
Koll 2014 2016
Stein 2014-2016
Pales 2014-2016
Feiser 2014-2016

Bottom of chart

Bell 2015-2017
Dudley 2015-2017
Ioan 2015-2017
Eakins 2015-2017
Ziegler 2015-2017

These are the east numbers. 2 years max loss with the Nicolau. Care to tell us how many years west pilots lose using DOH?

 

[SparrowHawk]

You MUST be joking! George Nicolau is very highly regarded too. Watch how fast Kasher goes from being respected to "senile" when he hands USCAB their own asses.

Yes he was highly regarded. However he also got himself in a bit of Wringer with another case that called his objectivity into question. I don't recall the case but no doubt someone here does. George Nicolau was at the end of a long career. His time was winding down. Kasher's star is still rising & from what I've been able to find he's unlikely to have his decision called into question outside of the parties involved like Mr Nicolau has toward the end of his career.

It's also not been ruled upon by Kasher yet so as of now no one has gotten their assets handed to them. From my limited knowledge of the law it looks like a legal coin flip as both arguments are pretty strong. I think the key might end up being the long term viability of US Airways if USAPA were to prevail. IMO if Kasher factors that in the East/USAPA is toast. If not I think they may just prevail and get their back pay. If that were to happen I think you'll see a great deal of movement on all sides

 

[Phoenix]

Yes he was highly regarded. However he also got himself in a bit of Wringer with another case that called his objectivity into question. I don't recall the case but no doubt someone here does. George Nicolau was at the end of a long career. His time was winding down. Kasher's star is still rising & from what I've been able to find he's unlikely to have his decision called into question outside of the parties involved like Mr Nicolau has toward the end of his career.

It's also not been ruled upon by Kasher yet so as of now no one has gotten their assets handed to them. From my limited knowledge of the law it looks like a legal coin flip as both arguments are pretty strong. I think the key might end up being the long term viability of US Airways if USAPA were to prevail. IMO if Kasher factors that in the East/USAPA is toast. If not I think they may just prevail and get their back pay. If that were to happen I think you'll see a great deal of movement on all sides

I don't care how highly regarded any arbitrator is, it would be easy to succumb to the temptation of seeking the least disruptive outcome--isn't that really the arbitrator's job anyway, so-called law notwithstanding?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

It's also not been ruled upon by Kasher yet so as of now no one has gotten their assets handed to them. From my limited knowledge of the law it looks like a legal coin flip as both arguments are pretty strong. I think the key might end up being the long term viability of US Airways if USAPA were to prevail. IMO if Kasher factors that in the East/USAPA is toast. If not I think they may just prevail and get their back pay. If that were to happen I think you'll see a great deal of movement on all sides

Perhaps I am naive, but, I have heard that an arbitrator is not supposed to consider "financial viability" when making their decision.

After all, the tempe management group hangs their hat on their communicative skills. If they cannot convince an employee group that the company will go under should an adverse ruling prevail, then, maybe that management group should be fired.

 

[mikey60]

Kero;
I see more pilots that were furloughed from AAA at the time of the merger complaining far more that I see AWA pilots that were gainfully employed. Nicolau addressed the seats (read JOBS) brought to the table. The two gainfully employed pilots on both properties are right next to each other. FURTHER, the top 517 positions on the list belong to the top 517 East pilots. That's not even close to relative, BUT it is a process that we mutually agreed upon and will honor (one by integrity, one by legal force). DOH is a windfall for ALL east pilots. The Nicolau list is the blended list that meets all of the tenets of the agreed merger process.

You are right, we are stuck where we are until a court instructs the parties on legal obligations. We didn't have to go this route.....it was simply forged by Bradford, King and the band of Merry Men in the back of a van. Facilitated by the ONLY law firm that said that DOH was a slam dunk (who is now leaving with over 10,000,000 of our dues money). USAPA in its present form is a dismal failure.

Attrition: In the next five years only 60% of the east retirements will be captain seats. 95% of the west retirements will be captain seats. All those men and women punching out at age 65 lost nearly 3/4 of a million dollars had you agreed to JUST the Kirby Proposal (and we likely would have gotten much more). What a sad loss, all in the name of misguided greed.

Well if its that simple why dont you agree to DOH. Presto! problem solved. Now wasnt that easy.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Incorrect again. The 2 year delay number came from your own numbers guy. It was part of the pretty waterfall presentation to ALPA. The one where they invented the term "captain years"

Top of your chart:

Name unmerged merged
Koll 2014 2016
Stein 2014-2016
Pales 2014-2016
Feiser 2014-2016

Bottom of chart

Bell 2015-2017
Dudley 2015-2017
Ioan 2015-2017
Eakins 2015-2017
Ziegler 2015-2017

These are the east numbers. 2 years max loss with the Nicolau. Care to tell us how many years west pilots lose using DOH?

Zeigler eh? Zeiglers current seniority number is 2590. What happens to the other 716 pre merger east pilots?

As I said before, for the vast majority the east is better off under LOA 93.

We are not in 2005 anymore. Those 716 other guys have a vote as do the 108 hired to date since 2005.

That is 824 pilots that are keenly aware of how the NIC will affect them.

I see now how the west comes up with its numbers when discussing NIC. They just take a pair of scissors to the last few pages of the active pilot list.

yes I know your next line "They were furloughed" Well guess what, they are not now, and they have full voting power in any T/A that may be put forth.

 

[cleardirect]

Zeigler eh? Zeiglers current seniority number is 2590. What happens to the other 716 pre merger east pilots?

As I said before, for the vast majority the east is better off under LOA 93.

We are not in 2005 anymore. Those 716 other guys have a vote as do the 108 hired to date since 2005.

That is 824 pilots that are keenly aware of how the NIC will affect them.

I see now how the west comes up with its numbers when discussing NIC. They just take a pair of scissors to the last few pages of the active pilot list.

yes I know your next line "They were furloughed" Well guess what, they are not now, and they have full voting power in any T/A that may be put forth.

What are you not understanding? This is a chart designed and built by the east. That was the top and bottom the the entire chart. I did not "take a pair or scissors" to anything. That is all the information there is. Those are the east numbers. 2 years is the max harm to any east pilot.

I don't know how to be anymore clear.

I a 2 year delay for SOME of the east FO's is worth hundreds of millions of dollars to you guys so be it. But understand what the real harm is and how much you all are doing to yourself.

 

[Barrister]

What incentive do we have to move off the Nic? I only see you guys begging for change, not us.

And since you don't mind being on LOA93, we don't mind keeping you there.

Hey bright spark...or just #### to you.....every guy/gal who turns 60 over here or is over 60 already is getting an automatic 28K/48K
raise from the PBGC. So even though youliketo crow there are a ton of people over here easily topping your top pay.

Enjoy your next 20 years in the right seat out in the desert. Maybe someday you can be trader jakes FO.

NICDOA
NPJB