US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Barrister]

='BoeingBoy' timestamp='1319987026' post='840950']
I would disagree somewhat. Depending on how the SLI is done, it can be a cost item for the company. Unless you're an advocate of "training is a fixed cost", that is. Just take the two extremes - a straight ratio and a staple with both airlines pretty much identical equipment-wise. A straight ratio would require almost no extra training - everyone would be about where their seniority entitled them to be except for bases - while a staple would require training most of both sides pilots until everyone got where their new seniority number allowed them to be (disregarding QOL issues).

The other thing I keep seeing is the idea that "the west will own the airline". Not having a west seniority list, I think that overstates the attrition effects. Given the numbers I posted earlier, in 10-15 years there'll still be a not small contingent of east pilots and there won't still be 1600 or whatever number of west pilots. Even with the bandied about 50 west retirements per year, which I don't know is accurate, the west will be down to 900 or so pilots in 15 years vs the 600 or so east. There'll be more pilots hired after the merger than the total of east and west pilots. So if anyone is going to "own" the airline down the road, it won't be the west - it'll be the post merger "new hires".

Jim
[/quote]

You are so full of crap it isn't even funny. We are laughing at you dude. We know the ages and the numbers. You don't.
Too many guys have from 300 to 1500 guys senior to them who are in A LOT of cases younger then them who would be junior to them by DOH

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[luvthe9]

I've answered that question twice already but I know you're a little slow so here goes.

I course I'm going to take any money that's due me.

Exactly how does that make me a hypocrite?

Just seems odd to accept all that money from a group that you have been flapping your mouth off in a very negitave way and then turn around and take the money, I think most people can see that point. I bet you would have been happy to sign the Kirby proposal in a second. Hey hope you at least thank them.

 

[Zone5]

I would disagree somewhat. Depending on how the SLI is done, it can be a cost item for the company. Unless you're an advocate of "training is a fixed cost", that is. Just take the two extremes - a straight ratio and a staple with both airlines pretty much identical equipment-wise. A straight ratio would require almost no extra training - everyone would be about where their seniority entitled them to be except for bases - while a staple would require training most of both sides pilots until everyone got where their new seniority number allowed them to be (disregarding QOL issues).

The other thing I keep seeing is the idea that "the west will own the airline". Not having a west seniority list, I think that overstates the attrition effects. Given the numbers I posted earlier, in 10-15 years there'll still be a not small contingent of east pilots and there won't still be 1600 or whatever number of west pilots. Even with the bandied about 50 west retirements per year, which I don't know is accurate, the west will be down to 900 or so pilots in 15 years vs the 600 or so east. There'll be more pilots hired after the merger than the total of east and west pilots. So if anyone is going to "own" the airline down the road, it won't be the west - it'll be the post merger "new hires".

Jim

Sure, any SLI would have a cost associated with it. Changing equipment to change bases, damage control, right seat to left seat, ect, ect. No bump, no flush provisions would dilute the effects somewhat however. With the amount of new hire training coming down the pike and equipment freezes associated with post SLI moves, I imagine X amount of dollars are going to have to be thrown at training for quite some time. It was "Dougweiser" who has publicly stated several times that he did not care how the SLI was decided, I take that to mean that he places little or no cost on it, one way or the other.

As far as what the list will look like 10-15 years down the road, I suspect that it will be heavily weighted at the top with former AWE pilots. I know if I stay till 65, the nice young man just ahead of me on the NIC will be here another 22 years! It's kind of ironic that when you consider the amount of new hires coming to the East, at that point, the remaining former AWE pilots would be better off with DOH.

seajay

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

What about the LOA 93 arbitration is unethical?

No, you are the one who can't seem to make a distinction between moral and legal grounds. You stated that you would not refuse a legal favorable ruling, implying that even if unethical. "Due process" I think you said.

Talk about a lack of coherence. Take you time.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Talk about being delusional, you're starting to make MM look rational

Sometimes you just have to open your eyes DAN! You will see, but sometimes it takes those lacking a little bit of time!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Ok, who did this? Man that was nice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowrM-780tg

One thing for sure, wasn't and won't be a WESTIE!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Will have to keep our eye on the westies to make sure they don't screw up oru fine operation. 😉

You got that right 9, since were under the injunction, and DP will never give them parity, it will be up to us and go to DP to expand us to keep them from our livelyhood! MM

 

[BoeingBoy]

What did I lie about?

You'll note that the post of mine that you quoted in turn quotes MM, not you. Even you should be able to figure out that I was responding to him.

Jim

 

[cactusboy53]

Will all you clowns stop with the NIC stuff, it's gone and not coming back. I think there is some good news very soon for the east let's concentrate on that. Yo, Trader I know your are not going to take the money, right remember your integrity.

While Lucifer is the Father of Lies, you most certainly have to be his step-son or 3rd cousin (once removed). You may not keep track of your lies, but we all do. Source? You don't need no stinkin' source! Who's "going to jail" this week, Luvr?

 

[BoeingBoy]

No bump, no flush provisions would dilute the effects somewhat however.

I've seen similar views on "no bump, no flush" before which leads me to believe there's a misunderstanding of what it means. Put simply, it means that pilot A can't displace pilot B when the list goes into effect just because pilot A is senior on the integrated list (no bump). Normal displacement (bumping) is definitely allowed unless there's a specific C&R to prevent it as was the case in the US/PI merger. The other half (no flush) simply means that the company can't open every position up so that everyone has to bid. Normal movement is still allowed. So the most no bump/no flush will do is stop a mass movement on the first bid after a combined list goes into effect. In my earlier example of one side stapled under the other, movement would still occur due to the change in seniority until everyone reached the level their new seniority number could hold.

As far as what the list will look like 10-15 years down the road, I suspect that it will be heavily weighted at the top with former AWE pilots. I know if I stay till 65, the nice young man just ahead of me on the NIC will be here another 22 years! It's kind of ironic that when you consider the amount of new hires coming to the East, at that point, the remaining former AWE pilots would be better off with DOH.

Like I said, I don't have a west list and the Nic doesn't give DOB so I only used the number for attrition that's floating around here - 50 leaving per year starting very late next year. If that's wrong, it's wrong. But one or two cases of anecdotal evidence doesn't prove it wrong. How many east pilots will be left when you retire? How long will the youngest east pilot still be around after you retire. How many post-merger hires will there be when you retire? A westie 22 years younger than you means nothing about who will "own the airline" at some specific point in the future. I show the youngest east pilot as born in 1973 - retiring in 2038.

Jim

 

[noDOH4u]

Will all you clowns stop with the NIC stuff, it's gone and not coming back.

Hahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's pretty frickin' funny! Not in your wildest dreams are we (or the courts) going to stop talking about "the NIC stuff." And it WILL be coming right back up your six before you know it.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So genius is the courts read the 9th opinion and says nic doesn't have to be used then what is the basis for the DFR.

Well, definitely not genius, it's that little part of a sentence that you all love to ignore - "that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear". The 9th also clearly said that USAPA's proposal harmed the west - "not nearly as favorable to the West Pilots as the Nicolau Award." What do you think that means oh mentally challenged one? A valid DFR perhaps? Maybe even an "unquestionably ripe" DFR?

Jim

 

[noDOH4u]

East pilots did, not ALPA, not USAPA. You know, the same pilots who voted ALPA off the property.

Interesting how when something you like happens, you are quick to claim credit. But someone points out that all the stuff you blame ALPA for was actually your very own east pilots, you deny accountability and don't hesitate to blame ALPA National.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Just seems odd to accept all that money from a group that you have been flapping your mouth off in a very negitave way and then turn around and take the money, I think most people can see that point.

Silly you...."all that money" isn't coming from USAPA's empty coffers. If Kasher rules for the pilots, the money is coming from the company's pocket and is owed to the pilots per the arbitrator's award.

Jim

 

[767jetz]

Ok, who did this? Man that was nice.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lowrM-780tg

Gotta admit that was nice.