US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

So now we know how USAPA is going to balance its budget.

What we don't know is how USAPA is going to present its case on 12/1.

What we do see is how quickly USAPA can turn on its heros.

Interesting how billing errors cropped up AFTER Seham refused to file the SQ case in NY.

Blah Blah Blah, so boring is that all you have? AWA pilots soon to be the lowest paid in the industry.

 

[Move2CLT]

Blah Blah Blah, so boring is that all you have? AWA pilots soon to be the lowest paid in the industry.

That blah blah came from your CLT reps.

And we'll never be the lowest paid. You guys make sure of that.

 

[Black Swan]

Was there a vote by the membership to pursue the LOA 93 grievance? If not does it not count if you win or lose? The deal with unions is the members put our trust and our "power of attorney" in their hands. If they make a decision it binds us. With or with out a vote.

Was the pension given away by ALPA or taken by the BK court? Does it matter? It is still gone.

Did you guys get a vote on sticking with DOH during the arbitration or not? Did you guys get a vote on who the lawyer was going to be? Did you guys get a vote to keep or get rid of Seham? Seems your reps decide a lot of things with out your votes.

Who cares if your bunch gets to vote on LOA 93? Butt Out. The language was in there for a reason. Your America West management? chose to steal from the East pilots after the date ended it. There is nothing wrong about pursuing corporate greed and theft that you greenlight. We will do what we want, including take the raise very shortly. The days of Leonidas are waning. The Kasher decision is the kill shot.

 

[cleardirect]

ALPA gave away a several billion dollar pension and folks want to treat it as either "oh well, no body is at fault. Or, you are ALPA, so you are at fault. Thirteen ALPA punks want a medal for saving us, just like the West wants a medal.

So ALPA just "gave away" the pension. Did they get something in return? Did they do it for a reason? Did they just give it back so the company would thin the are nice guys?

Your pension was bust and in order to have a job the next day your pension had to go. It sucks! But that is reality. Your pension is not the only pension in the history of the world to fail.

Blame ALPA all you want but if ALPA had not "given it away" US Airways would have closed the doors. So you decide. Job with BK wages LOA 93 and no pension. Or! No job no LOA 93 and no pension.

Would you care to vote? Do you think that voting no would have changed that reality?

It sucks your pension is gone but whining about it 8 years later is getting old. Blaming ALPA is getting old. Not voting on getting rid of the pension is getting old.

 

[Move2CLT]

Who cares if your bunch gets to vote on LOA 93? Butt Out. The language was in there for a reason. Your America West management? chose to steal from the East pilots after the date ended it. There is nothing wrong about pursuing corporate greed and theft that you greenlight. We will do what we want, including take the raise very shortly. The days of Leonidas are waning. The Kasher decision is the kill shot.

God damn that's funny. Somehow Leonidas was never going to get off the ground, never become effective, and now it's waning.

And the fact the you conced that it's waning means that, at one point, you admit that it had power over you. Bravo for seeing that.

 

[BoeingBoy]

and you haven't changed even one east attitude.

I can lead them to water but I can't make them drink. But change is coming, much to your chagrin. Slowly, for sure, but the longest journey starts with the first step...

Jim

 

[luvthe9]

I have heard the quite a few of the westies our heading "down under" to go take the jobs of some Qantas pilots with your extensive 747 experience, you know what they say once a scab always a scab.

 

[Move2CLT]

I have heard the quite a few of the westies our heading "down under" to go take the jobs of some Qantas pilots with your extensive 747 experience, you know what they say once a scab always a scab.

I've heard you have two working for USAPA that have scabbed their fellow Americans and that you reward them with FPL.

You know what they say...

 

[Phoenix]

So ALPA just "gave away" the pension. ....

Well stated. So then are you with the "Oh, well" group or are you the one that wants a medal? Or both?

 

[cleardirect]

Who cares if your bunch gets to vote on LOA 93? Butt Out. The language was in there for a reason. Your America West management? chose to steal from the East pilots after the date ended it. There is nothing wrong about pursuing corporate greed and theft that you greenlight. We will do what we want, including take the raise very shortly. The days of Leonidas are waning. The Kasher decision is the kill shot.

That must be the slowest shot in the history of the world. When did you guys predict the award would come out?

So it is OK not to vote on some things but you demand a vote on others. Just trying to understand the mind of lunatics.

BTW the west did not and never will vote on LOA 93. Are you losing it?

The management is all of ours not just AWA.

We will do what we want

Spoken like the true entitled and selfish eastie that you are. I would not expect anything else from you and your kind. From the first day that is how you have acted. Take what you wnat. Well you ran into a bunch of guys from the west that is not going to allow that to happen. Thieves are stopped.

 

[Phoenix]

14,000+ posts!!! Wow! and you haven't changed even one east attitude. Even that loser Munn doesn't come close. Get a life already....

V

Hey, take it easy on the caped marauder. He still works here and actually has visions that prove he is a prophet.

 

[nic4us]

The more you post, the more your entitled attitude is. First, you want to cut in line of a pilot with years more on the property,that, is SOCIALISM. Do your time, earn your spot. Next, the grievance on LOA 93 is as plain as day. What do you have to do with our LOA 93 issues? Butt out. It has a date, what does a date mean? And I really don't give a damn about what you think to be honest, as it is always about you, and your made up INTEGRITY. I think you are finally realizing your little game of LEARN TO LIVE ON LOA 93 is DEAD IN THE WATER. Backfired, in your face. You are very shortly going to see a reversal of fortune, and it isn't going to be fun for you. Couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch.

1. Yes it has a date! We can all read the date! The date means the FREEZE expires on that date. What it does not mean is that the reduction in rates "as frozen" majically reverts to a former rate. Like all RLA contracts, what you have is an amendable date.

2.What I have to do with "your" rates is that we both work for LCC, and while you and usapa try every lowlife tactic in the book to aquire something that is not yours, you are harming the company I work for, the pilot group I work in, and the industry in general. So, I am not butting out. I will continue to be very vocal about what a scumbag organization usapa is, and what lowlife scabs its supporters have proven themselves to be.

3. Have done my time, earned my spot, and lo and behold some east scab with less LOS that was furloughed on the PID wants to jump in front of me, and if he can't have that he wants to f' over the company. So, blow your SOCIALISM BS out your a$$ and go talk to your scab buddies over at usapa about how they are going to get out the injunction they brough upon themselves with another one of their lets teach everybody how big of scabs we can be campaigns.

4. If you don't care what I think.....quit replying to my posts.

5. No matter what happens in the LOA93 grievence,,,its all good for the West, so there is indeed going to be a reversal of fortune.

 

[Black Swan]

That must be the slowest shot in the history of the world. When did you guys predict the award would come out?

So it is OK not to vote on some things but you demand a vote on others. Just trying to understand the mind of lunatics.

BTW the west did not and never will vote on LOA 93. Are you losing it?

The management is all of ours not just AWA.


Spoken like the true entitled and selfish eastie that you are. I would not expect anything else from you and your kind. From the first day that is how you have acted. Take what you wnat. Well you ran into a bunch of guys from the west that is not going to allow that to happen. Thieves are stopped.

Spoken like someone who thinks he has control over us. We file for ourselves. None of your business. Your Leonidas group has taken you into the kill zone. What do they say about the new pay rates for the East?

 

[Phoenix]

1. Yes it has a date! We can all read the date! The date means the FREEZE expires on that date. What it does not mean is that the reduction in rates "as frozen" majically reverts to a former rate. Like all RLA contracts, what you have is an amendable date.

2.What I have to do with "your" rates is that we both work for LCC, and while you and usapa try every lowlife tactic in the book to aquire something that is not yours, you are harming the company I work for, the pilot group I work in, and the industry in general. So, I am not butting out. I will continue to be very vocal about what a scumbag organization usapa is, and what lowlife scabs its supporters have proven themselves to be.

3. Have done my time, earned my spot, and lo and behold some east scab with less LOS that was furloughed on the PID wants to jump in front of me, and if he can't have that he wants to f' over the company. So, blow your SOCIALISM BS out your a$$ and go talk to your scab buddies over at usapa about how they are going to get out the injunction they brough upon themselves with another one of their lets teach everybody how big of scabs we can be campaigns.

4. If you don't care what I think.....quit replying to my posts.

5. No matter what happens in the LOA93 grievence,,,its all good for the West, so there is indeed going to be a reversal of fortune.

Dude, you could probably get your physician to prescribe you something. Or maybe just take a walk outside.

 

[Keroseneuser]

So we are back to the same old argument that got us into this mess.

Blah, blah, blah the east is the majority you get to decide whatever you want because you are going to take it by force damn the law or arbitration or anything else.

Until a vote is taken we will never know. But this union and this leadership will never allow a vote. Two reasons. They are incapable of getting a contract and second they are afraid it will pass and the entire reason for usapa will be over.

Make up your mind what you want to argue about would ya?

First you say that a contract with NIC in it would pass. I post numbers that pretty much show that would be highly unlikely since so many current active pilots would be stapled.

Next you say that the east is better off money wise with NIC. Again as far as the active pilots, unless Doug wants to pay every f/o 125 an hour they are better off waiting for their attrition seat and not having to wait until every west pilot upgrades.

Things have changed a lot since the NIC list came out. Most of the east group that might have voted to put nic in are already retired (The top 516) The bottom group that was furloughed when nic list came out now constitutes the majority of the F/O ranks on the east, they are all no votes. What was the bottom reserve f/o's when nic came out are now the senior f/o's that are very close to captain with the attrition. They are no votes. Most of the current captains on anything smaller than a widebody are no votes. Since NIC would most likely keep them out of a widebody till retire. And most widebody capt are no votes just because they are tired of all this crap.

The longer it goes, the better for the current east pilots it is.

Even AOL knows this, you can tell that by how they like to toss all kind of numbers and graphs around in their mailers, except for the only thing that the east pilots really care about. The attrition.

The really odd part is even when the east was putting as much pressure as possible on the company to get them to negotiate something that might approximate a industry standard contract, ie follow the sop's etc. All we saw on here from the west was how that scab union was trying to bring the company down and the west guys were doing everything they could to help tempe keep all of us right where we are.

As long as the battlecry is "NIC or nothing" we are to the point where NIC will only be decided by a court, if ever. Every retirement we see on the east puts the junior west pilot in a worse position. In case you have not noticed The "DOH or nothing" guys we had on the east are dissappearing fast. About all we hear anymore if it is even spoken of in the cockpit is "Screw it, seperate ops is better for us anyhow."

I can go months flying and never hear the west even mentioned while out there. If it is mentioned it is more along the lines of talking about another airline, "we are sequenced behind the west 319 for taxi" or similar. I pay my dues, USAPA reps are on hand and always call you back when you have a contract question or a legality issue, they have yet to gut our contract in the dead of night or ban USAirways pilots from webboards or increase monthly flying hours with furloughees on the street. That is more than I can say about ALPA. Frankly I don't care who is porking who from whatever law firm the porkee was employed at. If USAPA gets too far out of line and quits supporting the line pilots like ALPA did then you will see action taken. Until then it is all the standard political crap you see from any union. There is zero danger of ALPA being voted back in at this airline right now thats for sure.

Time and again I see in the meeting notes that "The PHX reps abstained from this issue or that issue" or "felt they should not comment" WHY NOT? NIC decision is years away at best, and everyday you sit on here complaining about what ba$tards the east is and yelling NIC or nothing, is another day that you shoot yourself in the foot on a chance to get in on these massive retirements coming up.

But thats fine with me, the longer you hurl rocks the faster the east list moves up.

But you are correct about one thing. USAPA is incapable of getting another contract without the west pilots with us and all working to a contract. And USAPA is also incapable of getting any contract voted in that contains NIC for the forseeable future (at least 9 years). So as long as nobody wants to budge from NIc the west will get what they get paid and 50 upgrades a year, and the east will get LOA 93 or maybe 2002 rates and 300+ upgrades a year.

But that just my opinion as a east line guy that sees everyday how little the east pilots even think about the west situation. I come here more to kill some time while my laundry dries or dinner cooks that anything else. I don't really care if they ever put these two groups together.