US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Keroseneuser]

Don't be...it was that little "If Kasher does give you a snapback..."

Jim

From your position on the issues, I take it you have sent a letter to USAPA and told them to opt you out of any retirement that may be due to you should by some miracle they be successful in getting some kind of restoration?

I am sure you would not want to be sullied by a monthly check from such a questionable source. 🙂

 

[BoeingBoy]

I am sure you would not want to be sullied by a monthly check from such a questionable source. 🙂

I don't have to worry about such an ethical quandary since no money is going to be coming my way. East pilots pushing for DOH, on the other hand.....well, I assume that they've all written to USAPA expressing their complete lack of interest in a captain job out west...

Jim

 

[Keroseneuser]

I don't have to worry about such an ethical quandary since no money is going to be coming my way. East pilots pushing for DOH, on the other hand.....well, I assume that they've all written to USAPA expressing their complete lack of interest in a captain job out west...

Jim

Yeah I think they pretty much have judging by the majority that say "Screw em, we are better off seperate ops anyhow." I think it is the 1750+ east retirements vs the 400 west retirements in the next 9 years that swayed them.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I think it is the 1750+ east retirements vs the 400 west retirements in the next 9 years that swayed them.

I hope you're not counting on all of those 1750 to make captain...you'll be as disappointed as when you don't get the extra retirement from the PBGC...

There's a lot of truth to the saying "cut off your nose to spite your face" or "a bird in hand is worth two in the bush."

Jim

 

[Keroseneuser]

I hope you're not counting on all of those 1750 to make captain...you'll be as disappointed as when you don't get the extra retirement from the PBGC...

Jim

Sigh, wow Jim, how many time have we gone over these numbers now? Your memory is not beginning to go is it? 🙂

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not at all. It's been explained to you easties plenty of times and you still don't get it...

Jim

 

[Keroseneuser]

Not at all. It's been explained to you easties plenty of times and you still don't get it...

Jim

Thats the thing Jim, the easties DO get it. Do the numbers however you like, no matter how you roll them around or graph them out, the east is better off keeping what we have then ANYTHING that contains NIC.

Simple fact, 1750+ east retires in 9 years and keeping all of their attrition is better than adding 400 more west retirements into the mix and giving MOST of the spots to west pilots under NIC. The fact that the majority of the east f/o's would have to wait for every single west guy to upgrade before they do kinda made it a no brainer. As for the rest of us, I will stick with the 1750+ given the choice. At this point only a court is going to figure it out, and the way the courts go, that is sometime next decade when it doesn't matter anyhow. 🙂

Well tempe can change their minds, but that involves Doug paying the f/o's 125 an hour. Won't see that happening.

You don't happen to have a son or daughter that is a west pilot do you? That would go a long way to explain why you go to great lengths to convince a bunch of pilots to staple themselves to the bottom of the list at a company that you don't work for.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Simple fact, 1750+ east retires in 9 years and keeping all of their attrition is better than adding 400 more west retirements into the mix and giving MOST of the spots to west pilots under NIC. The fact that the majority of the east f/o's would have to wait for every single west guy to upgrade before they do kinda made it a no brainer. As for the rest of us, I will stick with the 1750+ given the choice.

And therein lies your problem with math...or maybe more accurately with interpreting raw numbers to produce reasonable conclusions. Not to mention counting on something nearly a decade from now when you don't even know what might be happening with US 12 months from now. Think about just over a decade ago - the 2nd parity+1% raise had kicked in and east pilots were on top of the world. How did that work out in the end?

Jim

 

[Keroseneuser]

And therein lies your problem with math...or maybe more accurately with interpreting raw numbers to produce reasonable conclusions. Not to mention counting on something nearly a decade from now when you don't even know what might be happening with US 12 months from now. Think about just over a decade ago - the 2nd parity+1% raise had kicked in and east pilots were on top of the world. How did that work out in the end?

Jim

Ok so by your figuring, the east should go ahead and staple themselves to the bottom, give all the attrition to the west, then cross their fingers and hope for a juicy merger or the easter bunny to bring an upgrade to them?

It is simple numbers, 1750 in 9 years 2728 in 15?, or add 400 more in 9 and 785 more in 15 and give most of the retirement seats away to the west?

Go out and ride pass for a couple weeks Jim, talk to the crews. You will see that your argument has no takers.

Also, the lack of an answer I guess means you do have a family member that is a west pilot?

 

[Move2CLT]

Ok so by your figuring, the east should go ahead and staple themselves to the bottom, give all the attrition to the west, then cross their fingers and hope for a juicy merger or the easter bunny to bring an upgrade to them?

It is simple numbers, 1750 in 9 years 2728 in 15?, or add 400 more in 9 and 785 more in 15 and give most of the retirement seats away to the west?

Go out and ride pass for a couple weeks Jim, talk to the crews. You will see that your argument has no takers.

Also, the lack of an answer I guess means you do have a family member that is a west pilot?

The east won't be stapled. They'll assume the same relative seniority they had prior to the merger.

 

[Move2CLT]

Now that's rich, I guess we are playing right into the masterful hands of the west. . AOL is the king of polarization, and yes most easties are ready for change and that change will be in their hourly pay rate. Keep the spin coming.

Are you an eastie that thinks an LOA93 win will show a pay increase in the following check?

Do you understand it may be years before you'd see anything?

Even if you win you lose. Your work rules will still be LOA93.

 

[Black Swan]

The east won't be stapled. They'll assume the same relative seniority they had prior to the merger.

No, they won't. They will wait for the Kasher numbers, then move on and out. Making the warning by ALPA "ALL THE RISK LIES WITH THE WEST" a reality. Love the Move2 "even if you win, you lose." You have to spin everything. Just wait till the senior West pilots say enough is enough, and push for the Nic junior aspirations to just go away.

 

[Black Swan]

When a pilots equiptment FREEZE ends, does s/he immediately return to the position they held prior to the position that was frozen?

You are making less and less sense there Swan.

Funny thing about the shareholders meeting example you just gave, not only was a lower rate discussed, it was proffered by the scabs. Yep, they were negotiating for rates lower than the rates they now say are due to them in this BS grievenc they filed.

If Kasher does give you a snapback, plan on the next question at the shareholders meeting to be,"and how long do we anticipate it will take to replace the remaining 700-800 east pilots"?

Not immediately, but they return, and without the stupid negotiations notion dirtbag air pushes. Just because you buy off on dirtbag air's argument doesn't mean Kasher will . Hopefully he will see a greedy corporation trying to take advantage of someone who helped years ago, and slam them hard.

 

[Move2CLT]

No, they won't. They will wait for the Kasher numbers, then move on and out. Making the warning by ALPA "ALL THE RISK LIES WITH THE WEST" a reality. Love the Move2 "even if you win, you lose." You have to spin everything. Just wait till the senior West pilots say enough is enough, and push for the Nic junior aspirations to just go away.

No spin boo boo. I just propagate the truth for all you easties to hear.

LOA 93 is here to stay no matter what the outcome.

And now you have Seham suing USAPA.

You easties are a perpetual mess.

 

[Keroseneuser]

The east won't be stapled. They'll assume the same relative seniority they had prior to the merger.

If this were 6 years ago you might have an argument.

In the here and now in 2011, many of the 516 east guys at the top of NIC are gone, there are 825 east f/o's that would be stapled to the bottom, and there are many current captains that would be junior to current west f/o's.

In the here and now, those 825 east f/o's don't care what happened 6 years ago by a different union, they will vote for what is best for them. And it is not NIC.

The Captains will vote for what is best for them, and it is not NIC.

The only chance NIC has is through the court system. That is probably next decade by the time a contract is finally there that may trigger a DFR that then will go thru I am sure several appeals etc etc. By then, problem is solved, since anybody that it mattered to is either a Captain or retired. Well, on the east side anyway.