US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Rookie Jr]

Just wait till the senior West pilots say enough is enough, and push for the Nic junior aspirations to just go away.

Now that's just plain funny! If the west were to give in to DOH there would be no senior west pilots. The very few who might benefit are those who will be 65 in the near future.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Now that's just plain funny! If the west were to give in to DOH there would be no senior west pilots. The very few who might benefit are those who will be 65 in the near future.

Sounds just like the east if they give into NIC.... ahh the irony.

 

[Code Name V]

Hey, take it easy on the caped marauder. He still works here and actually has visions that prove he is a prophet.

Sorry, I'll try to me more sympathetic to the elderly next time...And all this time I thought wisdom came with age...Thanks to BB I have been set straight..

V

 

[luvthe9]

Are you an eastie that thinks an LOA93 win will show a pay increase in the following check?

Do you understand it may be years before you'd see anything?

Even if you win you lose. Your work rules will still be LOA93.

The pay and the retro will come quick, not that worried about or LOA93, don't mind the work rules you give them 85 or 90 a month regardless, vacation we just call 1-800-IAM-SICK I'm OK with it, plus we have all the hiring, you lose on every aspect enjoy those sub standard wages. Go cry to Doug for a raise. 😛 Keep those donations coming in!!!!

 

[Res Judicata]

The pay and the retro will come quick, not that worried about or LOA93, don't mind the work rules you give them 85 or 90 a month regardless, vacation we just call 1-800-IAM-SICK I'm OK with it, plus we have all the hiring, you lose on every aspect enjoy those sub standard wages. Go cry to Doug for a raise. 😛 Keep those donations coming in!!!!

Win, Lose, Tie. You won't ever see a single penny raise from current rates outside of a joint contract. Kasher is irrelevant. You guys have stepped on your dicks so often a rational person would have learned to recognize the signs by now. Not you lunatics. The Seham embarrassment should rip the blinders off event he most devoted disciple of USCABA but something tells me it won't.

BTW, I've been meaning to ask one of you JiEASThadists this: Being that USAPA is now on their 5th law firm, ($400.00/hr) why HASN'T USAPA hired the WILDER team of the infamous Wilder blog?

Isn't Wilder considered by the East the preeminent legal mind practicing today...next to Lee Seham?

P.S. CALLING IN SICK WHEN YOU AREN'T IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE PERMANENT INJUNCTION LEVIED AGAINST YOU AND YOUR UNION. I SUGGEST YOU CEASE AND DESIST ALL PROMOTION OF ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR LEST YOUR UNION BE SUED IN TO BANKRUPTCY.

 

[luvn737s]

Luvthe9 and the Clubber ought to just hand their IDs like men rather than the tearful drama it will eventually be in a jetway near them soon.

 

[Move2CLT]

The pay and the retro will come quick, not that worried about or LOA93, don't mind the work rules you give them 85 or 90 a month regardless, vacation we just call 1-800-IAM-SICK I'm OK with it, plus we have all the hiring, you lose on every aspect enjoy those sub standard wages. Go cry to Doug for a raise. 😛 Keep those donations coming in!!!!

If, by quick, you mean a few years then you're correct.

And the only ones crying for a raise are you guys. And you're doing it while being videotaped and holding a bible!!

LMAO.

 

[nic4us]

Wait I am confused, didn't you just say a while back that we need to accept NIC so we can get a new industry standard contract?

If they are not going to pay part of the airline decent money, what make you think they will pay ALL the airline decent money?

Oh wait, ok I got it, you mean you want NIC so that all the west can be captains and make decent money. Sorry for the confusion.

Talk about confused..how does the Nic staple anybody on the east?

You are obviously a prior furloughee who is pissed he does not get to leepfrog West pilots.

The east will have to accept the Nic to get off of LOA93. But, if there are enough folks like you, who would rather remain seperate, then you can remain seperate for a while longer.

Little news flash for you there junior, over half the West is already captains...and they are making better coin, and getting more time off than their east counterparts. For instance, myself. I don't want the Nic so I can make captain, I have been in the left seat for over 15 years now. I will fight DOH til the end, and make sure the usapa scabs don't put a furloughed POS in my seat. You will never see DOH, and you are not coming off LOA93.

Are you still confused?

 

[luvthe9]

Win, Lose, Tie. You won't ever see a single penny raise from current rates outside of a joint contract. Kasher is irrelevant.

Wow, you exemplify the meaning of stupid, but we know it is caused by all your fustration.

 

[Move2CLT]

You can't write comedy better than this.


CLT Special Domicile Update
CLT Special Update

Last Wednesday, October 26, 2011, the reconvened Regular Fall Meeting of the BPR here in Charlotte was adjourned. In the interest of transparency and clarification of specific legal issues this special update is for your review.

BPR Decisions

Some of you have alerted us that the Internet is abuzz with tales of clandestine maneuvers and nefarious intent surrounding what amounts to the reassignment of certain legal cases pending for USAPA. Following is a synopsis of how we handled the business of representing your interests in this regard. Among our many tasks, we have a fiduciary responsibility to see that your dues money isn't squandered. In August we were presented with information that raised legitimate concerns about legal billing. Specifically, the Seham law firm's bills were in question, but there were Board Members who were interested in the bills from other counsel as well, and it was decided that an audit of all our legal bills was in order. Now, seven weeks have passed and, after many letters from USAPA to the Seham firm (Seham Seham Meltz & Petersen, SSMP) over a nearly two-month period, we have received none of the requested information about billing detail and other questions that we have. In a word, they're stonewalling. The audit will proceed, and we have been told that the counsel overseeing that process can absolutely force compliance, but SSMP has thus far ignored USAPA's initial inquiries. This fact in and of itself casts a shadow on their credibility. If there was nothing wrong with their bills, it follows that some transparency on their part would go a long way toward restoring our confidence in SSMP.

For our part, and on the advice of the auditors, USAPA has stopped paying the Seham firm for the time being. This is a rational move in light of the fact that the bills in question might total several millions. However, as a result, the SSMP has put a lien on our files, making day-to-day legal maneuvers difficult and confounding our initial efforts to understand the billing issues. But it does much more than that: it casts extreme doubt on their interest to -- and ability to -- represent USAPA properly in the upcoming Declaratory Judgment litigation in Phoenix. Documentation forwarded to the BPR from Seham through Secretary-Treasurer Rob Streble aptly showed the acrimony SSMP is displaying toward USAPA. It's disappointing, to say the least, that SSMP has clammed up and offered no cooperation when all we've asked for is a clearer picture of what we've been getting for our money. Their initial obstructionist tactics notwithstanding, SSMP has no ability to restrict access to files or to obstruct the representation and best interests of the client. They have, as required, agreed to transfer them to another law firm as necessary.

It is with this background information that the Board had to decide with whom to place our trust for the upcoming court dates in Phoenix. O'Dwyer and Bernstien, along with Pat Szymanski (former General Counsel for IBT President Jimmy Hoffa, Jr.), have already spent considerable time working with USAPA to understand our goals, our political situation, our legal and negotiating positions, etc. They filed our suit in the Eastern District of New York and are working the case involving the injunction in North Carolina.

For those of you unfamiliar with O'Dwyer and Bernstien, the New York firm has over 100 years experience in the fields of Labor Relations and Employee Benefits, Personal Injury Litigation, and Administrative/Governmental law representing individuals, corporations, labor unions and governmental entities. We offer you this information not as any kind of sales pitch, but simply to let you know that making this change in legal counsel is far from some rash decision leading to the use of a second-string firm. Briefings we've received from Brian O'Dwyer and Pat Szymanski have inspired strong confidence in their abilities, and they have shown no tendency toward over-billing or nickel-and-diming us. In fact, it's already been made clear that much of the prep time -- read: billable hours -- for the Declaratory Judgment case has already been accomplished during preparations for the other cases they're involved in on our behalf.

Much has been made in various Internet venues about O'Dwyer and Berstien's hourly rate of $400/hour, which is ostensibly more than Seham's $250/hour. Let's not be naive, however, and think that lawyers can't bill for more hours than they're actually working, or perhaps that they might use more attorneys on a particular assignment than necessary (on numerous occasions Seham was warned about this tactic of assigning too many attorneys to a case, increasing billable hours). This sort of behavior can have a dramatic effect on a client's monthly bill; while we will be watching the legal billing meter closely, early indications are that neither Brian nor Pat engage in billing that won't pass an auditor's inspection. Further, they know that our audit is coming their way soon, and neither have shown any concern or resistance to allowing that process to go forth; in fact they have encouraged and welcomed the audit.

Finally, you should know that after an extensive briefing in closed session, the BPR voted 8-0-3 (the PHX Reps were, appropriately, the three abstentions) in favor of reassigning the Declaratory Judgment case to O'Dwyer and Bernstien and Pat Szymanski. Several of us had serious reservations about making the switch before the meeting, but after hearing the facts and considering the landscape in total, we see the change intuitively as our best course of action.

In the end, this is business. USAPA is a customer in need of experienced, trustworthy legal counsel and we have directed this change to ensure just that. We acknowledge Lee Seham's contributions in the legal arena and we sincerely hope the upcoming audit shines a vindicating light on his firm. For now, however, Seham's unwillingness to cooperate with USAPA is clearly a detriment to his ability to best represent USAPA pilots; having studied the situation, we have every confidence that O'Dwyer and Bernstien, as well as Pat Szymanski, will carry out that task efficiently and effectively.


Fraternally,

Captain Bill McKee

Chairman

(980) 875-7644

First Officer Dewitt Ingram

Vice Chairman

(704) 497-7246

First Officer Steve Crimi

Vice Chairman

(980) 875-7645

 

[luvthe9]

If, by quick, you mean a few years then you're correct.

And the only ones crying for a raise are you guys. And you're doing it while being videotaped and holding a bible!!

LMAO.

Oh the pain that will be coming to you kids, you will all be irrelevant soon, what will you do then? All of the west posts are just reeking of desperation. you know you have lost. Enjoy the stagnation out west. Yo Move, you neeed to PM Res and let him know he is making all you guys look stupid with his comments, the boy is clueless.

 

[SparrowHawk]

P.S. CALLING IN SICK WHEN YOU AREN'T IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE PERMANENT INJUNCTION LEVIED AGAINST YOU AND YOUR UNION. I SUGGEST YOU CEASE AND DESIST ALL PROMOTION OF ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR LEST YOUR UNION BE SUED IN TO BANKRUPTCY.

Show us in the Injunction where it says a person can't call in sick?

My understanding is the injunction covers certain specific areas regarding work slowdowns and MTC write-ups and not anything else. So if that's the case a bogus sick call would not affect the injunction. Instead a pilot would be subject to the standard disciplinary actions as set forth in the CBA. Now then how does one prove a sick call is bogus? Back in the '70's a company I was working for tried that crap and when I got done with them it cost them about $80,000 to install a new ventilation system in the Print Shop. They ran me through all kinds of crap, visited their Doctor and I remember the exact dialog between the Co. DR and me.

DR: You don't really think your illness was caused by the ventilation do you?
SH: Where did you get your degree in Graphic Arts?
DR, Huh, I don't have one!
SH: Well I don't have a medical degree so why would you ask such a question?
DR: We're done here.

For the record I had a slight upper respiratory infection that I coaxed my Dr into contacting OSHA. I never got any sick call crap again.

 

[nic4us]

Wow, you exemplify the meaning of stupid, but we know it is caused by all your fustration.

And usapa exemplifies the meaning of scab....and yes, we all know it was caused by your frustration.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Talk about confused..how does the Nic staple anybody on the east?

You are obviously a prior furloughee who is pissed he does not get to leepfrog West pilots.

The east will have to accept the Nic to get off of LOA93. But, if there are enough folks like you, who would rather remain seperate, then you can remain seperate for a while longer.

Little news flash for you there junior, over half the West is already captains...and they are making better coin, and getting more time off than their east counterparts. For instance, myself. I don't want the Nic so I can make captain, I have been in the left seat for over 15 years now. I will fight DOH til the end, and make sure the usapa scabs don't put a furloughed POS in my seat. You will never see DOH, and you are not coming off LOA93.

Are you still confused?

15 years eh, sorry, still got you by a few years junior.

Thats what I keep trying to tell you, the east is just fine with LOA 93. They would prefer higher pay, but they will not trade their retirements to get higher pay.
So barring a court ordered NIC list, the west is where it is at least until the end of the decade.

For the F/o's that were furloughed that you like to say are not getting stapled, well that is semantics. They could care less what you want to call it, to them it is being tossed under 1400+ people that they currently are not under. So they will not vote for anything with NIC in it.

So as I said before, the courts might end up saying NIC is the list, but I bet it won't happen until after all those not getting stapled f/o's are Captain. At least not at the rate we are going now with one or two hearings on it every 6 years.

The entire AOL agenda has been reduced to what a court may or may not rule at some unspecified point in the future.

In fact you guys are so tunnelvision on the NIC that you have not even noticed that the east does not care about DOH. At least not the guys out flying the airplanes, we would rather keep the status quo and enjoy our attrition.

really I don't know what the west is so cheesed about right now. the ALPA DOH drive has died down. the average eastie has no interest in ever seeing the two lists merged. The west guys should be happy, they get to keep their list intact with no easties on it.

From what I see out there on the line our guys are just fine with permanant seperate ops. Maybe we should just go to Doug and say we have it all worked out. keep the lists seperate and just negotiate a pay rate that covers both sides. That way no west guy is cheesed about east guys on their list and vice versa.

 

[nic4us]

15 years eh, sorry, still got you by a few years junior.

Thats what I keep trying to tell you, the east is just fine with LOA 93. They would prefer higher pay, but they will not trade their retirements to get higher pay.
So barring a court ordered NIC list, the west is where it is at least until the end of the decade.

For the F/o's that were furloughed that you like to say are not getting stapled, well that is semantics. They could care less what you want to call it, to them it is being tossed under 1400+ people that they currently are not under. So they will not vote for anything with NIC in it.

So as I said before, the courts might end up saying NIC is the list, but I bet it won't happen until after all those not getting stapled f/o's are Captain. At least not at the rate we are going now with one or two hearings on it every 6 years.

The entire AOL agenda has been reduced to what a court may or may not rule at some unspecified point in the future.

In fact you guys are so tunnelvision on the NIC that you have not even noticed that the east does not care about DOH. At least not the guys out flying the airplanes, we would rather keep the status quo and enjoy our attrition.

Man you lost me there.

You don't care about DOH, yet there are 2 lawsuits pending you illegal persuit of DOH.

You would rather have status quo, yet you file disingenous grievences in hail mary attempts to get out from under the status quo LOA93.

Okay, and on top of all of that, if you got that much time in the left seat of a group 2 airplane, you are senior to me on the Nic, and really do not have that many West pilots above you, so that ain't adding up either.