US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvthe9]

And usapa exemplifies the meaning of scab....and yes, we all know it was caused by your frustration.

Were you friends with Dan? no fustration over here just a nice raise in pay coming, how about you, I didn't think so. well at least you have good weather out there.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Man you lost me there.

You don't care about DOH, yet there are 2 lawsuits pending you illegal persuit of DOH.

You would rather have status quo, yet you file disingenous grievences in hail mary attempts to get out from under the status quo LOA93.

Okay, and on top of all of that, if you got that much time in the left seat of a group 2 airplane, you are senior to me on the Nic, and really do not have that many West pilots above you, so that ain't adding up either.

I said the average line guy when talking about DOH. The union on the other hand knows that they can never ever get anything voted in that has NIC in it regardless of whatever crappy token raise that tempe might offer. But they have a duty to try to figure out some way to get a new contract for both sides.

I would say that given how screwed up this situation is, the only real answer for the next 10 years or so may be to keep it seperate and just work out new pay rates and work rules that end up seperate but equal. Republic runs several different certificates on one contract, we could just do it the other way, run 2 seniority lists on one contract.

Oh, on the seniority thing. that is another miss by AOL in all their mailers. Thinking that they can get the senior guys to flush the ex furloughed junior guys down the drain for a token raise like ALPA used to do all the time. Well, I am not willing to just flush the guys junior to me...neither are the other guys like me.

 

[Al Legheny]

Are you an eastie that thinks an LOA93 win will show a pay increase in the following check?

Do you understand it may be years before you'd see anything?

Even if you win you lose. Your work rules will still be LOA93.

Most Everything the company wants in a contract is a loss except for money. the only two wins are vacation up to 30 days vs. 21 days and West trip rig is better.

As bad as you claim LOA93 is, it still has:

1. Block Building - NO PBS
2. Bid Sheet - No open time jungle rules
3. SAP and other programs that work on a seniority basis to adjust schedule
4. 1500 sick bank
5. Unlimited disability to retirement. The current company proposal is three years. After three years it's hit the road jack the company doesn't owe you anything.
6. Some of the strongest scope language in the industry
7. Min block hours, Min Fleet [West numbers are tied only the transition agreement and could disappear in a merger- It was Jeff Fruend that said that, not USAPA]
8. Too much other stuff for me to remember right now.

If we get paid I will stick with this contract. I like it just fine.

 

[luvthe9]

Now that's just plain funny! If the west were to give in to DOH there would be no senior west pilots. The very few who might benefit are those who will be 65 in the near future.

Deleted

 

[cleardirect]

15 years eh, sorry, still got you by a few years junior.

Thats what I keep trying to tell you, the east is just fine with LOA 93. They would prefer higher pay, but they will not trade their retirements to get higher pay.
So barring a court ordered NIC list, the west is where it is at least until the end of the decade.

For the F/o's that were furloughed that you like to say are not getting stapled, well that is semantics. They could care less what you want to call it, to them it is being tossed under 1400+ people that they currently are not under. So they will not vote for anything with NIC in it.

So as I said before, the courts might end up saying NIC is the list, but I bet it won't happen until after all those not getting stapled f/o's are Captain. At least not at the rate we are going now with one or two hearings on it every 6 years.

The entire AOL agenda has been reduced to what a court may or may not rule at some unspecified point in the future.

In fact you guys are so tunnelvision on the NIC that you have not even noticed that the east does not care about DOH. At least not the guys out flying the airplanes, we would rather keep the status quo and enjoy our attrition.

really I don't know what the west is so cheesed about right now. the ALPA DOH drive has died down. the average eastie has no interest in ever seeing the two lists merged. The west guys should be happy, they get to keep their list intact with no easties on it.

From what I see out there on the line our guys are just fine with permanant seperate ops. Maybe we should just go to Doug and say we have it all worked out. keep the lists seperate and just negotiate a pay rate that covers both sides. That way no west guy is cheesed about east guys on their list and vice versa.

You sure do throw out a lot of numbers. So let me throw out a few.

32 and 11.

That is the difference between separate ops and the Nicolau attrition. You fools are giving away hundreds of millions of dollars and contract improvements because of 32 per year for the next 9 years and and average of 11 per years for the next 19 years.

But have at it boys.I can't fix stupid. Now if you don't believe those number you better do a little research and think about how I came up with that figure.

Stand alone you have 71% of the attrition. Combined ops you have 66.6%. But I guess as one of you said you want 90% of the attrition. But you also want 90% of the contract.

Tell you what. You guys can have 71% of the attrition of we can have 40% of the contract instead of the 10% usapa is trying to leave us.

 

[Move2CLT]

It's not that the east doesn't care about DOH, its that they know it's DOA.

 

[Claxon]

You sure do throw out a lot of numbers. So let me throw out a few.

32 and 11.

That is the difference between separate ops and the Nicolau attrition. You fools are giving away hundreds of millions of dollars and contract improvements because of 32 per year for the next 9 years and and average of 11 per years for the next 19 years.

But have at it boys.I can't fix stupid. Now if you don't believe those number you better do a little research and think about how I came up with that figure.

Stand alone you have 71% of the attrition. Combined ops you have 66.6%. But I guess as one of you said you want 90% of the attrition. But you also want 90% of the contract.

Tell you what. You guys can have 71% of the attrition of we can have 40% of the contract instead of the 10% usapa is trying to leave us.

There will be no contract with Franke Air. They have what they seek, and that is the stupid western who are easily manipulated. They use the western who have only recently gotten any decent pay as tools. They use the tools, as tools. Franke has used them to take the industry down, the pensions down, the pay down, and even used them internationally to take Australian pilots down. They are a cancer, that has spread east. Keep them away at all costs. You see how they work closely with management. They will do the same if you ever try and get a contract with them. You will NEVER get one with them. Do not listen to them. They are completely ignorant in contractual issues, and have just recently achieved one that is barely good. Look back in the past. They had nothing.

 

[luvthe9]

It's not that the east doesn't care about DOH, its that they know it's DOA.

Just forget about the NIC that will never happen, will take the raise and back pay, and we will all be happy right. Most likely you will be sold off, anyway we need to get rid of the unprofitable operation anyway. How many west furloughed boys are heading down under.

 

[Al Legheny]

Most Everything the company wants in a contract is a loss except for money. the only two wins are vacation up to 30 days vs. 21 days and West trip rig is better.

As bad as you claim LOA93 is, it still has:

1. Block Building - NO PBS
2. Bid Sheet - No open time jungle rules
3. SAP and other programs that work on a seniority basis to adjust schedule
4. 1500 sick bank
5. Unlimited disability to retirement. The current company proposal is three years. After three years it's hit the road jack the company doesn't owe you anything.
6. Some of the strongest scope language in the industry
7. Min block hours, Min Fleet [West numbers are tied only the transition agreement and could disappear in a merger- It was Jeff Fruend that said that, not USAPA]
8. Too much other stuff for me to remember right now.

If we get paid I will stick with this contract. I like it just fine.

You may have all noticed my new avatar. What happened wuz I dialed up the voltage on my old thinkin helmut too much and I got astral-projected. I flew roun dahntahn pittsburgh an'at. It's still got a few bugs to work out. Some gum-bands an speed tape an it'll be just fine.

I gonna be the Secretary of Integalactic Transportation!

 

[Claxon]

Win, Lose, Tie. You won't ever see a single penny raise from current rates outside of a joint contract. Kasher is irrelevant. You guys have stepped on your dicks so often a rational person would have learned to recognize the signs by now. Not you lunatics. The Seham embarrassment should rip the blinders off event he most devoted disciple of USCABA but something tells me it won't.

BTW, I've been meaning to ask one of you JiEASThadists this: Being that USAPA is now on their 5th law firm, ($400.00/hr) why HASN'T USAPA hired the WILDER team of the infamous Wilder blog?

Isn't Wilder considered by the East the preeminent legal mind practicing today...next to Lee Seham?

P.S. CALLING IN SICK WHEN YOU AREN'T IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE PERMANENT INJUNCTION LEVIED AGAINST YOU AND YOUR UNION. I SUGGEST YOU CEASE AND DESIST ALL PROMOTION OF ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR LEST YOUR UNION BE SUED IN TO BANKRUPTCY.

This is exactly why you will never be able to work, get a contract with the western. They are all like this one.

 

[luvthe9]

[/b][/i][/u]

This is exactly why you will never be able to work, get a contract with the western. They are all like this one.

Hey Claxon, this guy must the idiot out of the group, totally clueless kid.

 

[Code Name V]

Win, Lose, Tie. You won't ever see a single penny raise from current rates outside of a joint contract. Kasher is irrelevant. You guys have stepped on your dicks so often a rational person would have learned to recognize the signs by now. Not you lunatics. The Seham embarrassment should rip the blinders off event he most devoted disciple of USCABA but something tells me it won't.

BTW, I've been meaning to ask one of you JiEASThadists this: Being that USAPA is now on their 5th law firm, ($400.00/hr) why HASN'T USAPA hired the WILDER team of the infamous Wilder blog?

Isn't Wilder considered by the East the preeminent legal mind practicing today...next to Lee Seham?

P.S. CALLING IN SICK WHEN YOU AREN'T IS IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE PERMANENT INJUNCTION LEVIED AGAINST YOU AND YOUR UNION. I SUGGEST YOU CEASE AND DESIST ALL PROMOTION OF ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR LEST YOUR UNION BE SUED IN TO BANKRUPTCY.

I suggest you and the Traitor get together. I understand he is putting together an ethics class and needs some instructors....

V

 

[Rookie Jr]

Sounds just like the east if they give into NIC.... ahh the irony.

That's why both sides are dug in deep. The difference is that the Nic is the result of a completed process, an arbitration, and has been accepted in writing. DOH? A proposal at best and one that will become a painfully ripe DFR case should it even come close to seeing the light of day. Good luck with that, girls. You have run out of options and the fear and desperation is obvious.

 

[john john]

What are you going to do when you inevitably lose again?

Get a government job like you know who

 

[john john]

All I know is you have more than twice what you had pre-merger, and that all growth flying was supposed to be shared.

at PHX LAS