What's new

US Pilots Labor Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
Were you friends with Dan? no fustration over here just a nice raise in pay coming, how about you, I didn't think so. well at least you have good weather out there.

Dan says hi to Ray and Crimi.

We have good weather, better pay, more vacation, and PBS is great.

Where is your raise coming from? Can't steal it from the West pilots, so you thought you had a shot at stealing it from the company.

Be sure to sign up for some of that behavioral coverage in the open enrollment that ends tonight. Oh, speaking of that, did the east fix their higher cost for health insurance? $350/month, on LOA93...ouch thats gotta hurt!!
 
I said the average line guy when talking about DOH. The union on the other hand knows that they can never ever get anything voted in that has NIC in it regardless of whatever crappy token raise that tempe might offer. But they have a duty to try to figure out some way to get a new contract for both sides.

I would say that given how screwed up this situation is, the only real answer for the next 10 years or so may be to keep it seperate and just work out new pay rates and work rules that end up seperate but equal. Republic runs several different certificates on one contract, we could just do it the other way, run 2 seniority lists on one contract.

Oh, on the seniority thing. that is another miss by AOL in all their mailers. Thinking that they can get the senior guys to flush the ex furloughed junior guys down the drain for a token raise like ALPA used to do all the time. Well, I am not willing to just flush the guys junior to me...neither are the other guys like me.

1. Yes usapa has a duty to negotiate for a contract for both sides. Running 2 seniority list is a defacto admission that their existance is to confound the Nic, and take from the West what was awarded in a binding arbitration between the two groups.

2. The AOL mailers. I do not know that they were trying to convince just senior pilots. You have recalls that were 99 hires and such, that are going to have to wait either 10 years on LOA93 to make 123/hr ten years from now? or get a 20-30k raise for 12 years and then make substatially more.

3. Your replies have remained very civil, and that tells me a great deal. You are a better man than I.
 
Dan says hi to Ray and Crimi.

We have good weather, better pay, more vacation, and PBS is great.

Where is your raise coming from? Can't steal it from the West pilots, so you thought you had a shot at stealing it from the company.

Be sure to sign up for some of that behavioral coverage in the open enrollment that ends tonight. Oh, speaking of that, did the east fix their higher cost for health insurance? $350/month, on LOA93...ouch thats gotta hurt!!
Hate PBS, love Kasher and will have plenty of extra cash for the 350 a month and might go on the 76 or 330, we on the east will have a lot of movement unlike your side but at least you have good weather. No suprise you know Dan!!!
 
Just forget about the NIC that will never happen, will take the raise and back pay, and we will all be happy right. Most likely you will be sold off, anyway we need to get rid of the unprofitable operation anyway. How many west furloughed boys are heading down under.
Wait, you expect back pay too?:blink:

:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
You sure do throw out a lot of numbers. So let me throw out a few.

32 and 11.

That is the difference between separate ops and the Nicolau attrition. You fools are giving away hundreds of millions of dollars and contract improvements because of 32 per year for the next 9 years and and average of 11 per years for the next 19 years.

But have at it boys.I can't fix stupid. Now if you don't believe those number you better do a little research and think about how I came up with that figure.

Stand alone you have 71% of the attrition. Combined ops you have 66.6%. But I guess as one of you said you want 90% of the attrition. But you also want 90% of the contract.

Tell you what. You guys can have 71% of the attrition of we can have 40% of the contract instead of the 10% usapa is trying to leave us.

East has 2646 active pilots. NIC completly disregards 716 of those. That is almost 1/3 of the total east pilot list that anything with NIC in would do unrecoverable harm to. Remeber this is 2011 not 2005.

Seperate ops works for us. Why does it have you all bent out of shape? Or is it the fact that you only have 400 retirements in the next 9 years and want in on some of ours?

Lets face it, Tempe is never going to come up with a good pay rate short of a long and drawn out strike anyway. So seperate ops should be fine with you, your side gets paid more than ours does.
 
3. Your replies have remained very civil, and that tells me a great deal.

In any endeavor in life the one that loses his cool is at a disadvantage. Be it on the battlefield, in a sports competition, or in negotiations.

Plus this is a job to me, like several before it. If it goes away there is always another airplane to fly. I quit getting all worked up about this place long ago in a merger far far away! 🙂
 
Everyone knows the NIC is not going to happen why do we still waste time on it, again lets talk about the LOA93 win that's coming I think that will start to reshape things quite a bit. I can't wait ot see how the west will spin this one int o a victory for AOL that should be real funny. It's coming soon.
usapa grievance committee

We wish to start by unequivocally stating that at the time of writing we have not received either a decision or any form of indication as to how the Arbitrator will rule in this case. The countless rumors that have been spread in relation to this case are completely without merit and amount to pure fabrication. The high profile nature of this case has triggered many avenues for speculation and misinformation that have been falsely attributed to "sources in the know." We are aware that this misinformation has ranged from statements that the decision has already been received through to the nature of that decision. All of these rumors are false and we ask that you ignore all of these sources of misinformation.

We are aware that this is a case that has generated unprecedented interest and that our pilots are keen to be kept apprised of all developments. We understand the significance of this case to the pilot group and we will disseminate any information, good or bad, in as timely a fashion as the protocols of this process permit. Any perceived silence on the matter is either because there are no developments to report, or because the System Board Members are bound to honor the requirement of confidentiality during the normal procedural stages. Pending the Arbitrator's final decision and his formal release of the Parties from the confidential process, the Board Members will be prohibited from discussing the draft decision and prohibited from even suggesting that a decision may have been reached at that stage. The Grievance Committee and the Union Board Members are committed to respecting the integrity of this process in order to ensure that draft decisions are subject to correction and in order to ensure the Union's continued credibility before the arbitrators who are utilized on this property.

We are all eager to have this case resolved and we understand the importance of the issue to the pilot group. Regardless of the outcome,...

Right from the horse’s mouth NO information has been released. I guess that should just about cover the fly-bys boys. So much for “people in the know” hearing that it is a win for the east.

Tell me LUV do you pull your information out of your own butt or does someone else do it and hand you a lump so you can spread it around?
All of these rumors are false and we ask that you ignore all of these sources of misinformation.
See even the grievance lady is telling everyone to ignore you.

Why is this case significant? I thought you guys were fine on LOA 93 from now to the end of time. Why all of the interest?


Good or bad. Regardless of the outcome. Not words to give the east pilots a warm felling of victory does it? Maybe time to start rethinking your position a bit.
 
USAPA Petitions Court To Utilize Attorneys Not Listed In BPR Update

Dear Subscriber,

Update for October 31, 2011

Quick Fact #203: USAPA terminated Lee Seham and his firm (Seham, Seham, Meltz, and Peterson) as USAPA's General Counsel. The day after terminating Seham's firm USAPA filed a petition in federal court to have the union's new attorneys represent the the Association in the declaratory judgment lawsuit. The attorneys and firm identified to the court are different than the attorneys and the firm identified in the previous day’s BPR Meeting Update.

Will changing USAPA's General Counsel to a firm not listed in the BPR's Update as the Association's new lawyers affect USAPA's seniority integration case?

Link to Article

Recent Quick Fact Updates

Site

Fraternally,

webadmin@unbiasedfacts.org

Share The Facts! We encourage you to forward this email to friends who want to know what's really going on with USAPA.

To subscribe, send a reply message with subscribe in the subject line.

To unsubscribe send a reply message with unsubscribe.
 
CLT Domicile Special Update: October 31, 2011

Last Wednesday, October 26, 2011, the reconvened Regular Fall Meeting of the BPR here in Charlotte was adjourned. In the interest of transparency and clarification of specific legal issues this special update is for your review.

BPR Decisions

Some of you have alerted us that the Internet is abuzz with tales of clandestine maneuvers and nefarious intent surrounding what amounts to the reassignment of certain legal cases pending for USAPA. Following is a synopsis of how we handled the business of representing your interests in this regard. Among our many tasks, we have a fiduciary responsibility to see that your dues money isn't squandered. In August we were presented with information that raised legitimate concerns about legal billing. Specifically, the Seham law firm's bills were in question, but there were Board Members who were interested in the bills from other counsel as well, and it was decided that an audit of all our legal bills was in order. Now, seven weeks have passed and, after many letters from USAPA to the Seham firm (Seham Seham Meltz & Petersen, SSMP) over a nearly two-month period, we have received none of the requested information about billing detail and other questions that we have. In a word, they're stonewalling. The audit will proceed, and we have been told that the counsel overseeing that process can absolutely force compliance, but SSMP has thus far ignored USAPA's initial inquiries. This fact in and of itself casts a shadow on their credibility. If there was nothing wrong with their bills, it follows that some transparency on their part would go a long way toward restoring our confidence in SSMP.

For our part, and on the advice of the auditors, USAPA has stopped paying the Seham firm for the time being. This is a rational move in light of the fact that the bills in question might total several millions. However, as a result, the SSMP has put a lien on our files, making day-to-day legal maneuvers difficult and confounding our initial efforts to understand the billing issues. But it does much more than that: it casts extreme doubt on their interest to -- and ability to -- represent USAPA properly in the upcoming Declaratory Judgment litigation in Phoenix. Documentation forwarded to the BPR from Seham through Secretary-Treasurer Rob Streble aptly showed the acrimony SSMP is displaying toward USAPA. It's disappointing, to say the least, that SSMP has clammed up and offered no cooperation when all we've asked for is a clearer picture of what we've been getting for our money. Their initial obstructionist tactics notwithstanding, SSMP has no ability to restrict access to files or to obstruct the representation and best interests of the client. They have, as required, agreed to transfer them to another law firm as necessary.

It is with this background information that the Board had to decide with whom to place our trust for the upcoming court dates in Phoenix. O'Dwyer and Bernstien, along with Pat Szymanski (former General Counsel for IBT President Jimmy Hoffa, Jr.), have already spent considerable time working with USAPA to understand our goals, our political situation, our legal and negotiating positions, etc. They filed our suit in the Eastern District of New York and are working the case involving the injunction in North Carolina.

For those of you unfamiliar with O'Dwyer and Bernstien, the New York firm has over 100 years experience in the fields of Labor Relations and Employee Benefits, Personal Injury Litigation, and Administrative/Governmental law representing individuals, corporations, labor unions and governmental entities. We offer you this information not as any kind of sales pitch, but simply to let you know that making this change in legal counsel is far from some rash decision leading to the use of a second-string firm. Briefings we've received from Brian O'Dwyer and Pat Szymanski have inspired strong confidence in their abilities, and they have shown no tendency toward over-billing or nickel-and-diming us. In fact, it's already been made clear that much of the prep time -- read: billable hours -- for the Declaratory Judgment case has already been accomplished during preparations for the other cases they're involved in on our behalf.

Much has been made in various Internet venues about O'Dwyer and Berstien's hourly rate of $400/hour, which is ostensibly more than Seham's $250/hour. Let's not be naive, however, and think that lawyers can't bill for more hours than they're actually working, or perhaps that they might use more attorneys on a particular assignment than necessary (on numerous occasions Seham was warned about this tactic of assigning too many attorneys to a case, increasing billable hours). This sort of behavior can have a dramatic effect on a client's monthly bill; while we will be watching the legal billing meter closely, early indications are that neither Brian nor Pat engage in billing that won't pass an auditor's inspection. Further, they know that our audit is coming their way soon, and neither have shown any concern or resistance to allowing that process to go forth; in fact they have encouraged and welcomed the audit.

Finally, you should know that after an extensive briefing in closed session, the BPR voted 8-0-3 (the PHX Reps were, appropriately, the three abstentions) in favor of reassigning the Declaratory Judgment case to O'Dwyer and Bernstien and Pat Szymanski. Several of us had serious reservations about making the switch before the meeting, but after hearing the facts and considering the landscape in total, we see the change intuitively as our best course of action.

In the end, this is business. USAPA is a customer in need of experienced, trustworthy legal counsel and we have directed this change to ensure just that. We acknowledge Lee Seham's contributions in the legal arena and we sincerely hope the upcoming audit shines a vindicating light on his firm. For now, however, Seham's unwillingness to cooperate with USAPA is clearly a detriment to his ability to best represent USAPA pilots; having studied the situation, we have every confidence that O'Dwyer and Bernstien, as well as Pat Szymanski, will carry out that task efficiently and effectively.


IBT Education Ad Hoc Committee Update: October 31, 2011

Attention Pilots,

At the direction of the Board of Pilot Representatives, USAPA President Mike Cleary has formed an ad hoc committee to solicit from the pilots any questions concerning the relationship between USAPA and the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT). At present time, your Union is operating within a Strategic Alliance Agreement with the IBT that pledges cooperation on areas of common interest going forward. Some pilots have expressed an interest in the possibility of expanding this relationship up to and including a possible merger between the two unions.

The IBT Education Ad Hoc Committee, which has been tasked to assemble and deliver questions from our pilots to the IBT, has been formed, has held preliminary meetings, and is ready to hear from you, the USAPA Pilots, with your questions and comments regarding this issue. Please forward your questions for the IBT Education Ad Hoc Committee to the following email address: IBTcommittee@usairlinepilots.org.

The deadline for accepting questions will be November 14, 2011 at 1800 ET.

It is important for the committee to hear from all pilots that have questions so that a factual presentation can be made on this subject to the BPR and interested pilots in the near future. Thanks in advance for your participation in this endeavor.
 
It's pilots like you who have given us the scarlet letter we live with.

USAPA has backed us into a corner with no way out and did so by instilling false hope from day one. Only the most myopic among us don't know this to be true. Of course we will take any financial relief we can get, considering it is the fault of our misled union that we have not enjoyed any improvements in years, are stuck in a seemingly endless war with our west counterparts, we live with an injunction from a half baked "safety" campaign, and our dues are spent at the whim of one dictator.

I bet you didn't complain when you "accepted" parity+1, compliments of the same evil ALPA you've been bad mouthing since the arbitration didn't go our way. Sounds to me like you are the hypocrite. The only thing worse than the MEC who shackled our NC during arbitration is the BPR we are stuck with now, and some of the folks around here who like to think they speak the voice of us all.
They dont speak for all of us just the majority, thats all that counts.
 
The six faces of Lenidas
1.Nic4us- desperate for seniority
2. Move2Clt Furloughed and desperate with too much time on his hands
3. Clear Direct- furloughed and anger management issues
4. Boeing Boy- the new face of constipation
5. Fodase- spent too much time in the circus sideshow with carnies
6. Res Judicata- Furloughed, and just enough law school to make stupid mistakes that his co worker western have to pay for.

When is apollo allowed out to play again?? We were having soooo much fun I miss him.

Six Faces of Claxon


1. Born anArsehole
2. Worked at it his whole life
3. All his friends areArsehole
4. Got anArsehole for a wife
5. They wrote a song about you
6. Be anArsehole the rest of his life

 
The six faces of Lenidas
1.Nic4us- desperate for seniority
2. Move2Clt Furloughed and desperate with too much time on his hands
3. Clear Direct- furloughed and anger management issues
4. Boeing Boy- the new face of constipation
5. Fodase- spent too much time in the circus sideshow with carnies
6. Res Judicata- Furloughed, and just enough law school to make stupid mistakes that his co worker western have to pay for.

I don't know who Res, fodase, and move2 are, but I do know who Clear is. Never furloughed from AWA, and not a leonidas principal.

I have given money to AOL, maybe that is what you are talking about. I bet all the people you listed have done that except BB, and maybe Move2, if he is who I suspect he is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top