US Pilots Labor Discussion

[eastcoast]

God, I hope you're not on the Negotiating Committee. Your idea of acceptable is pathetic. Nic or no Nic, I would vote NO for a contract with those pay rates.

I guess you can consider yourself safe since I'm not on the NC.

I was asked a straight forward question. I did not say I would go in with that as my starting position. But that is my bottom line. Eventually we all get a vote. You can vote how ever you want. I'm a realist. I think there was a time years ago when we could have gotten more. But now, we'd be lucky to get something just short of JB/Spirit/Delta rates for similar equipment. The devil is in the details, and there are many cost items in our contract that are not in the hourly rate. Some productivity I would be willing to bend on. Things like scope, not so much.

My premise to all of this is that the arbitrated award is not so atrocious when you get away from raw numbers and look at the net effect. I just don't see the travesty. Not to mention the lack of integrity by going back on our commitment. Imagine how much more money every USAriways pilot would have today if the rates I'm talking about went into effect 5 years ago. Now take the few who are waiting for the "attrition train" to check out next year. At LOA93 rates, how long will he have to work before breaking even compared to that.

At some point a person has to know when it's time to cut the losses and move forward.

 

[cactusboy53]

Please explain. I have to admit you lost me.

How, exactly, could the east be worse off than with the nic?

The original TA demanded that, with the "nic", there had to be a "merged proposal", separately ratified by each group, east and west, in order to consider itself complete. Rationally most consider the ALPA defined TA a lost cause. If so, where is the "nic"?

While DOH may be gone for a few technical difficulties, I would presume what was presented at Wye River, LOS with conditions and restrictions, would be my bottom line.

Still not getting it, are you SealBeater? It is amazing to me that you kids don't understand the law, ethics, common sense & the difference between right & wrong.

See you in court on December 1st. The judge will instruct all parties on legal obligations.

 

[fodase]

Please explain. I have to admit you lost me.

How, exactly, could the east be worse off than with the nic?

The original TA demanded that, with the "nic", there had to be a "merged proposal", separately ratified by each group, east and west, in order to consider itself complete. Rationally most consider the ALPA defined TA a lost cause. If so, where is the "nic"?

While DOH may be gone for a few technical difficulties, I would presume what was presented at Wye River, LOS with conditions and restrictions, would be my bottom line.

Another ignorant east clown with absolutely no grasp of what is actually going on. Listen numb-nuts, the Nic. is not or will ever be up to a vote, there was a process to find a seniority list that process was complete and both east and west compensated by management upon it's completion and as a matter of fact, doug parker himself accepted the seniority list as REQUIRED by the ta. You will get to vote on a whole TA but not what seniority list is used, I know you clowns can't grasp the concept that the seniority list was never suppose to be ratified, you don't get to take votes on the outcomes of agreed to arbitrations.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

So you're saying Leonidas is Marsellus Wallace and USAPA is Butch the boxer I see.

That was what Marsellus told Butch before the boxing match. If i remember correctly, not long after he uttered those words, Marsellus lost his money on the boxing match, took an a$$ pounding, and it was Butch that ended up saving him from being murdered.

😀

Binding. Agreements. Live up to them.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Binding. Agreements. Live up to them.

In General if Corporations don't live up to their agreements, Binding or otherwise, isn't it a bit of a double standard to expect unions to do so or even an individual?

 

[767jetz]

Leonidas Update: November 2, 2011
...The class representatives are the same six pilots named in the Addington litigation:

...Make no mistake: every West pilot, and unionized airline employees everywhere, stand to suffer great harm should USAPA’s efforts to evade the binding arbitration ultimately prevail.

BINGO!

So for those still too dense and constantly questioning my motivation, Leonidas and their attorneys have spelled it out for you.

BTW Black Swan, I thought Addington disappeared, or as you love to say... was "remanded." ???
Why is everyone else including the court still talking about it???

Well the west now has their class status. And the east chalks up yet another loss.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Just a shout out to "Istickmyfeetinmymouth", our co-worker has returned to LAX with the respect he deserved.

No thanks to "Iamaflamingjackass".

Just glad it wasn't you.

Maybe your reception would not have been the same, even though no one deserves this.

I really hope no one is prepared to say that this is the wrong place to post considering - you know.

 

[CallawayGolf]

In General if Corporations don't live up to their agreements, Binding or otherwise, isn't it a bit of a double standard to expect unions to do so or even an individual?

Why don't you give your cynical view of agreements to the judge. I'm sure USAPA could use a few more witnesses.

 

[CallawayGolf]

In General if Corporations don't live up to their agreements, Binding or otherwise, isn't it a bit of a double standard to expect unions to do so or even an individual?

Duplicate

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

In General if Corporations don't live up to their agreements, Binding or otherwise, isn't it a bit of a double standard to expect unions to do so or even an individual?

Is this some kind excuse?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Is this some kind excuse?

NO!, Certainly NOT an excuse !

If we as a society have a standard of conduct that is expected then ALL should adhere to it. Be it Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, Labor Unions, Corporate Governance!, private citizens or public servants. Part of the reason the western world is in the predicament we are in is what I call "Flexible Ethics".

Some things in life are always wrong and some are always right. What we have here IMO is a union exercising its legal rights to seek redress through the courts for wrongs past, present and even the future either real or imagined by any means necessary including some that call into question the motives driving them.

Sadly, there will be no victories here. Instead someone will have "Lost Less"

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

So corporate greed is the example for some to emulate - lie, cheat and steal.

Lie, cheat and steal - it's OK.

Welcome to the "old" US Airways.

 

[SparrowHawk]

So corporate greed is the example for some to emulate - lie, cheat and steal.

Lie, cheat and steal - it's OK.

Welcome to the "old" US Airways.

I don't recall stating any such thing. It would be nice to live in a world where Morals, Values & Ethics counted for something and your personal reputation meant more than your personal net worth and how to enhance it.

We lived in that world 40 years ago before International competition forced us to compete in a global market and Greed and it's close relatives, Liar, Cheat & Thief came along for the ride, Honor, Integrity, Trust, Credibility have fallen by the wayside and are used as a cruel punchline by far to many.

USAPA is a product of the world we created. Why act surprised.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

I don't recall stating any such thing. It would be nice to live in a world where Morals, Values & Ethics counted for something and your personal reputation meant more than your personal net worth and how to enhance it.

We lived in that world 40 years ago before International competition forced us to compete in a global market and Greed and it's close relatives, Liar, Cheat & Thief came along for the ride, Honor, Integrity, Trust, Credibility have fallen by the wayside and are used as a cruel punchline by far to many.

USAPA is a product of the world we created. Why act surprised.

Who is acting surprised?

Where does one start.

The morality may differ from the process but the results, essentially are - lie, cheat and steal.

This does not bother you just because you understand the process?

Is this Ok with you?

 

[nic4us]

NO!, Certainly NOT an excuse !

If we as a society have a standard of conduct that is expected then ALL should adhere to it. Be it Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, Labor Unions, Corporate Governance!, private citizens or public servants. Part of the reason the western world is in the predicament we are in is what I call "Flexible Ethics".

Some things in life are always wrong and some are always right. What we have here IMO is a union exercising its legal rights to seek redress through the courts for wrongs past, present and even the future either real or imagined by any means necessary including some that call into question the motives driving them.

Sadly, there will be no victories here. Instead someone will have "Lost Less"

You are making a huge mistake.

The union is not excersing its legal rights. It is violating its legal responsibilities to represent all members. usapa was founded to violate the DFR, that is not "exercising its legal rights".