US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cynic]

I don't recall stating any such thing. It would be nice to live in a world where Morals, Values & Ethics counted for something and your personal reputation meant more than your personal net worth and how to enhance it.

Some of us do live in a world where morals, values and ethics count for something. It's a choice that we make to live in that world, even though that choice may cost us an opportunity to share in the ill-gotten gains available in the marketplace. I can live with fewer dollars in my pocket in exchange for the peace of mind that I have lived an honorable life. You can't measure a man's greatness or value to society simply by counting his bank account.

If you want to live in that world, then choose to do so. Given your propensity for insults and character assassination on this site, I think you're far more comfortable judging yourself by your bank account than your words and actions.

 

[nic4us]

I don't recall stating any such thing. It would be nice to live in a world where Morals, Values & Ethics counted for something and your personal reputation meant more than your personal net worth and how to enhance it.

We lived in that world 40 years ago before International competition forced us to compete in a global market and Greed and it's close relatives, Liar, Cheat & Thief came along for the ride, Honor, Integrity, Trust, Credibility have fallen by the wayside and are used as a cruel punchline by far to many.

USAPA is a product of the world we created. Why act surprised.

usapa is the product of a bunch of disgruntled scumbags who thought the little union busting lawyer they just fired would help them steal their co-workers jobs.

Now the scumbags are trying to stiff the "good" lawyer out of the money they owe him. Again proving they are lowlife welching slimeballs.

"Integrity Matters" to some. We know it does not matter to usapa.

 

[Move2CLT]

Just following my hero, the scab. I would not want to show him up.

I guess it will be up to us to keep you from scabbing.

What are you going to do? Elect another scab to represent you?

 

[Phoenix]

Some of us do live in a world where morals, values and ethics count for something. It's a choice that we make to live in that world, ...

We all live in the same world and are arrival into it didn't have anything to do with us. This rehash of "We are moral and you aren't." is just wasting bandwidth. Whatever. Each of us have justifications for what we do and a bunch of hot air isn't going to change anybody's opinion about those justifications. But its entertaining.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

We all live in the same world and are arrival into it didn't have anything to do with us. This rehash of "We are moral and you aren't." is just wasting bandwidth. Whatever. Each of us have justifications for what we do and a bunch of hot air isn't going to change anybody's opinion about those justifications. But its entertaining.

For those who may have a moral compass it may have some influence...

 

[prechilill]

In General if Corporations don't live up to their agreements, Binding or otherwise, isn't it a bit of a double standard to expect unions to do so or even an individual?

Please share with us all one case where what you claim is in fact true, that a company intentionally ignored a binding arbitration. Thank you in advance

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

So you're saying Leonidas is Marsellus Wallace and USAPA is Butch the boxer I see.

That was what Marsellus told Butch before the boxing match. If i remember correctly, not long after he uttered those words, Marsellus lost his money on the boxing match, took an a$$ pounding, and it was Butch that ended up saving him from being murdered.

😀

Bring out the Gimp....

 

[nevergiveup]

usapa is the product of a bunch of disgruntled scumbags who thought the little union busting lawyer they just fired would help them steal their co-workers jobs.

Now the scumbags are trying to stiff the "good" lawyer out of the money they owe him. Again proving they are lowlife welching slimeballs.

"Integrity Matters" to some. We know it does not matter to usapa.

If integrity matters, then why is the west not wiling to earn their seniority. Why are they so willing to take advantage of a group that was down on their luck? What a joke!

 

[SparrowHawk]

Please share with us all one case where what you claim is in fact true, that a company intentionally ignored a binding arbitration. Thank you in advance

Unbunch your knickers for a second.

1. I've nether the time nor the inclination to research whether a Company violated a binding arbitration as the use of BK laws to abrogate a union contract is sufficient evidence upon which to prove the point.

2. USAPA, to date is operating within the law because to date no one has been indicted, tried and convicted of a crime. The injunction is a civil matter that has to do with the typical Labor/Company negotiating battles. It's not the first time this has happened.

3. USAPA given the 2 BK's at (old) US has learned the lessons of how to break contracts, intimidate & bully from none other than the likes of Jerry Glass , PBGC, BK Court and the like, who legally undid several legal binding contracts. So in your world it's perfectly OK for Companies with Government and Corporations to use the courts to undo a contract but not OK for a union (any union) to engage in the same practice?

4. What we see in this situation is USAPA, AoL, Company acting based upon the ethics of the day. Whatever advances their goal constitutes the ethics of the day, even hour.

Is it ethical for a CEO to make million when most who work under him haven't gotten a raise since Clinton was President? I don't have the answers, I'm just asking the questions.

 

[Keroseneuser]

For those of you old enough to remember Johnny Carson:

The Great Carnak says:

Answer:
Several thousand that are two, and also one, and nobody is happy.

Question:
The east and west when this is all said and done.

Meaning that each side will litigate using every legal avenue to do so, there will eventually be a last litigation. The process will last for years to come. I suspect given the legal system in the U.S. that the last and final result will be something that neither side counted on or really likes.

But by then, I doubt it is really going to matter. We are six years into it. Many who were here at the beginning of this process are out enjoying retirement, or in a couple cases still posting here and arguing something that is a left over of their past life that they cannot let go of. Many more that are here now wont be when it is done.

I think when it is all done and something is finally agreed upon or court ordered, of the roughly 4046 current active pilots east and west , there may be at best 500 to 800 total left.
The bulk of the pilot group that will be here when it is all said and done have not been hired yet.

 

[prechilill]

Unbunch your knickers for a second.

1. I've nether the time nor the inclination to research whether a Company violated a binding arbitration as the use of BK laws to abrogate a union contract is sufficient evidence upon which to prove the point.

2. USAPA, to date is operating within the law because to date no one has been indicted, tried and convicted of a crime. The injunction is a civil matter that has to do with the typical Labor/Company negotiating battles. It's not the first time this has happened.

3. USAPA given the 2 BK's at (old) US has learned the lessons of how to break contracts, intimidate & bully from none other than the likes of Jerry Glass , PBGC, BK Court and the like, who legally undid several legal binding contracts. So in your world it's perfectly OK for Companies with Government and Corporations to use the courts to undo a contract but not OK for a union (any union) to engage in the same practice?

4. What we see in this situation is USAPA, AoL, Company acting based upon the ethics of the day. Whatever advances their goal constitutes the ethics of the day, even hour.

Is it ethical for a CEO to make million when most who work under him haven't gotten a raise since Clinton was President? I don't have the answers, I'm just asking the questions.

Translation: "I make stuff up on this message board all the time so don't ask me for facts because I don't have any, just opinions"

 

[prechilill]

If integrity matters, then why is the west not wiling to earn their seniority. Why are they so willing to take advantage of a group that was down on their luck? What a joke!

We did, last time I checked all of our captains upgraded exactly according to our seniority list. What the west is doing is preventing people like you from stealing our attrition and upgrades with your DOH cram down. Thieves...

 

[Keroseneuser]

We did, last time I checked all of our captains upgraded exactly according to our seniority list. What the west is doing is preventing people like you from stealing our attrition and upgrades with your DOH cram down. Thieves...

I don't think anybody on the east would have a problem with staying seperate ops. The east group I bet would agree to that today. Then we can all go to Doug and say its all worked out and get some new pay rates negotiated. One contract two lists for all hired before 2005. Let the pilots hired after 2005 bid back and forth where they please, the rest of us keep the attrition that each side has.

West keeps their attrition and upgrades and East keeps their attrition and upgrades.

 

[john john]

captains upgraded exactly according to our seniority list.

And the position upgrades go by what order

And your seniority list goes by what order

 

[nycbusdriver]

We did, last time I checked all of our captains upgraded exactly according to our seniority list. What the west is doing is preventing people like you from stealing our attrition and upgrades with your DOH cram down. Thieves...

Yes, your captain upgrades should indeed move along exactly according to your seniority list.

And your seniority list is ordered how?