US Pilots Labor Discussion

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways' SEC 10Q Report with Info on LOA 93 Grievance: October 27, 2011

SEC 10Q report for the the Third Quarter. Under Item 1, Legal Proceedings (page 57-pdf file), second paragraph US Airways told the SEC:

"We are party to an arbitration proceeding relating to a grievance brought by our pilots union to the effect that, effective January 1, 2010, this work group was entitled to a significant increase in wages by operation of the applicable collective bargaining agreement. A hearing was conducted and the parties are awaiting the ruling of the arbitrator. An adverse ruling by the arbitrator could require a material increase in the wages of our pilots and a material back payment to make the wage increase retroactive to January 1, 2010. We believe that the union's position is without merit and that the possibility of an adverse outcome is remote."

Click here to read the report.

 

[mrbreeze]

US Airways' SEC 10Q Report with Info on LOA 93 Grievance: October 27, 2011

SEC 10Q report for the the Third Quarter. Under Item 1, Legal Proceedings (page 57-pdf file), second paragraph US Airways told the SEC:

"We are party to an arbitration proceeding relating to a grievance brought by our pilots union to the effect that, effective January 1, 2010, this work group was entitled to a significant increase in wages by operation of the applicable collective bargaining agreement. A hearing was conducted and the parties are awaiting the ruling of the arbitrator. An adverse ruling by the arbitrator could require a material increase in the wages of our pilots and a material back payment to make the wage increase retroactive to January 1, 2010. We believe that the union's position is without merit and that the possibility of an adverse outcome is remote."

Click here to read the report.

Team Tempe can believe what they want, as far as merit....however, one way or the other, lining their pockets while screwing the employees is coming to an end. This is just their first "caution" to the public so that shareholders can't come back and claim that they didn't warn them.

breeze

 

[traderjake]

Team Tempe can believe what they want, as far as merit....however, one way or the other, lining their pockets while screwing the employees is coming to an end.

USAPA can believe what they want, as far as merit....however, one way or the other, lining their pockets while screwing their fellow employees is coming to an end.

Team Tempe and USAPA are alot alike.

 

[USA320Pilot]

For more information on the LOA 93 Grievance click here.

 

[cleardirect]

Best we can figure from past number crunching on here even with the over 65 f'o's we are looking at 1000 of the 1208 active captains gone in 9 years. With the other 780 east retirements of the 1780+ in 9 years being either f/o or ones out on medical or other leaves. the number of total retires is probably going to be higher since we are already losing a small but steady stream a full 12 months before the 65 date kicks in.

Under NIc we add another 400 capts gone from the west in 9 years. In effect that is most of the current Captains at the airline.

Most of the 1780 retires from the east are NOT in the 800 that would be put on the bottom of the NIC pile. So that leaves somewhere in neighborhood of 720 (currently active and non active)east pilots that are slotted in according to NIC, with many of those remaining junior to a lot of the west guys.

700 west f/o's roughly + 720 left over none bottom of list east f/o's in 9 years= 1420 f/o's to fill 1400 vacant captain seats on east and west combined. In effect a full turnover of west f/o's by end of decade. no matter how you slice it, that is a massive amount of movement that will cause massive reshuffle from the top of the list to the bottom.

Base numbers, 1400 west guys, 3300 east guys with 2646 active. Not exact numbers of course, but to facilitate that kind of movement from west f/o to east captain there is a lot of cross country movement. Not all will take upgrade and commute, but no way to predict the numbers.

This is an important number right here. Clearly 19.8% of the east pilots hold no value for attrition.

654 Non active east pilots. That is 2.6 years of retirement that do not gain anyone anything. So let's be serious with oyur numbers 1780 retirement in 9 years is really 1126 retirements that mean anything. divide that 1126 by 9 and you really have 125 east retirements not the widely spread 250-300 per year.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Does it bother you that Bill Franke is now Chairman of the Board of Spirit Airlines? Who in case you haven't noticed is both profitable and their pilot pay scale is slightly better at the top than yours is?

Heard from one of their guys that they had been told to "explore other possible employment avenues" Apparantly implying the future of the company was in question.

Prepping them for a crisis driven reduction in pay? Was about a month ago it was relayed to me by the guy. Don't have any idea of the validity of it.

 

[mrbreeze]

For more information on the LOA 93 Grievance click here.

This was Brookman's opinion on LOA93 and in an email to the pilots, persuading them to vote against LOA93 as a whole. John is sharp, but not an attorney.

I think Cpt Butkovics opinion holds much more merit, which deals with technical details of legal proceedures.

So, CM.....will you accept your back pay and pay raise if the pilots win the LOA 93 grievance, since you seem to think it is ethlicly wrong? please answer the question.

breeze

 

[SparrowHawk]

Heard from one of their guys that they had been told to "explore other possible employment avenues" Apparantly implying the future of the company was in question.

Prepping them for a crisis driven reduction in pay? Was about a month ago it was relayed to me by the guy. Don't have any idea of the validity of it.

There recent Q3 Earnings report was quite strong and they recently went public. Doesn't sound like they are in money trouble as they just built a new Training Center as well and announced plans to double in size in 4 years.

If they do double in size to between 70-80 planes, they start to play in the big leagues and that could change the game for them.

Bill Franke and Doug Parker are "Money Guys" and they're good at it. People in general they're less good with

 

[Keroseneuser]

This is an important number right here. Clearly 19.8% of the east pilots hold no value for attrition.

654 Non active east pilots. That is 2.6 years of retirement that do not gain anyone anything. So let's be serious with oyur numbers 1780 retirement in 9 years is really 1126 retirements that mean anything. divide that 1126 by 9 and you really have 125 east retirements not the widely spread 250-300 per year.

Still a lot more than the west have going. Continue the retirement rates out to 15 years and it is: east 2728 vs west 785.

It takes about 14 years before the west retirements catch up to the 700 current west f/o's that will be senior to almost all the east f/o's.

At 15 years there will be 572 east guys left out of approx 3300 that are here now. There will be 615 west guys left out of approx 1400 that are here now.

There is no question that NIC is VERY favorable torwards the west in the long term. Any pilot on the east over 50 will be looking very close at how many west guys will be senior to him when deciding how to vote. The more years over 50 the harder he will be looking.

Those numbers will be a factor in any vote we might see.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Heard from one of their guys that they had been told to "explore other possible employment avenues" Apparantly implying the future of the company was in question.

For the 1st 9 months of this year, US had $9.9 billion in operating revenue, Spirit had $0.8 billion or 8% as much.
For the same period, US had $318 million in operating profit, Spirit had $106 million or 33% as much.
For the same period, US had $53 million in net profit, Spirit had $52 million or 98% as much.

Adjusted for size, Spirit is much more profitable than US. Wonder who should be exploring "other possible employment avenues?"

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

Still a lot more than the west have going. Continue the retirement rates out to 15 years and...

And when was the last 15 year period without some sort of upheaval in the industry or a specific carrier that upset everyone's expectations? I'm not sure there has ever been such a 15 year period since Orville and Wilbur first flew. Acting now based on what may happen 10-15 years from now is at best foolish.

Jim

 

[Keroseneuser]

For the 1st 9 months of this year, US had $9.9 billion in operating revenue, Spirit had $0.8 billion or 8% as much.
For the same period, US had $318 million in operating profit, Spirit had $106 million or 33% as much.
For the same period, US had $53 million in net profit, Spirit had $52 million or 98% as much.

Adjusted for size, Spirit is much more profitable than US. Wonder who should be exploring "other possible employment avenues?"

Jim

Hehe. Yep, I conduct my finances with the assumption that this place is going to shut down tomorrow.

On another note, that is why I don't think Doug will ever pay enough to "guarantee" a yes vote on any joint NIC contract. He simply cannot.

 

[Keroseneuser]

And when was the last 15 year period without some sort of upheaval in the industry or a specific carrier that upset everyone's expectations? I'm not sure there has ever been such a 15 year period since Orville and Wilbur first flew. Acting now based on what may happen 10-15 years from now is at best foolish.

Jim

For 759 east guys the question is, "How will NIC affect my last 5 years?"

For 990 East guys the question is "How will NIC affect my last 9 years?"

Most reasonable people try to plan the best they can at least that far out with the info they have. That way they are better prepared for the "upheaval" that you speak of.

 

[BoeingBoy]

For 759 east guys the question is, "How will NIC affect my last 5 years?"

For 990 East guys the question is "How will NIC affect my last 9 years?"

Having expectations that far out is one thing, wanting them guaranteed and paid for by a group that had nothing to do with the wrong turn east careers took prior to the merger is something else. You want to effectively stop west upgrades for 10 years or so to give new-hires a shot at upgrading somewhere down the road...and call that fair.

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

A Compass Correction Coalition Update: November 3, 2011

Dear USAPA: when you find yourselves in a hole…
Stop Digging.

PHL Vice Chairman Mike Gillies – in the hole

Fellow Pilots,

Here is a short and sweet Compass Correction for you pilots out there, who still give a damn:

Two recent Domicile Updates from USAPA, one from CLT and later, the same one from PHL have this in common; Mike Gillies, PHL Vice Chairman, penned the update. Technically, therefore it really isn’t a CLT Update; rather it is a propaganda piece, filled with distortions and short on facts. It was published in a wholly failed attempt to “explain” why the President of USAPA fired the Seham legal team, without consultation, or prior approval from the Board of Pilot Representatives.

You can read the referenced USAPA update and judge for yourselves its validity, in light of the plagiarism, and some of the following points to ponder:

1. If this is an audit and “investigation” of the billing practices of the Seham law firm, (and supposedly, all law firms retained by USAPA) - why would Cleary fire the Seham firm, before the audit and the investigation of their practices is complete?

2. Why did Cleary fire the Seham law firm on October 3rd, the day BEFORE the start of the Fall BPR meeting, thereby conveniently ruling out consultation with the Board?

3. If there is a problem with the “billing practices” of multiple law firms, who then decides that the law firm hired to audit the other law firms aren’t themselves guilty of billing irregularities? USAPA alone is responsible to audit its contractors; but as usual, Cleary is lazy and prefers to shift responsibilities and the work load to others; specifically those who will not question his motives, ever.

4. Gillies, in his update actually accuses the Seham law firm of “stonewalling”. Yet, in the same update, Gillies contradicts himself. Here follows a sentence, written by Gillies in that update: “They (Seham law firm) - have, as required, agreed to transfer them to another law firm as necessary.” So which is it, stonewallers or cooperators? Gillies writes that it would be “naïve” to think that a law firm couldn’t over bill, simply by padding their hours, even if the hourly rate is lower. Well, speaking of naïve, who would expect cheerful cooperation with USAPA, once they have stopped paying their attorneys and commenced bad-mouthing them? Oh, and just for the record, Seham and his firm are cheerfully cooperating; ask your PHL Reps. if ANY of the other many lawyers and firms we retain have yet been audited?

5. In these “updates” Gillies reports that the alleged “billing irregularities” were discovered in August, 2011 and that is what leads to the firing of the Seham law firm. However, the O’Dwyer firm had already taken the lead in suing US Airways in Federal Court in New York back in May of 2011. Somebody at USAPA must be clairvoyant!

In fact what really happened is this: Cleary initiated the New York based lawsuit against management, despite the fact that this ill advised and demonstrably counterproductive action was never endorsed by Seham, in fact there is evidence that Seham was never aware of the lawsuit until after it became public. Frankly this lawsuit weakens our claims in the Phoenix court action……stupid, stupid, stupid; and arrogantly classic Cleary; (listen to no one who disagrees)

Finally, mixed in this unwholesome stew of intrigue is the departure from Seham’s firm of one of his attorneys; a female. This lady-lawyer had moved in with our USAPA Vice President Randy Mowrey. Her conflict of interest was dealt with by Seham in an appropriate manner; she left the firm. The lady-lawyer then wooed USAPA into a relationship with some old pals at Another Law firm. That law firm is....... wait for it, yes, you guessed it, our new best lawyers.... O’Dwyer and Berstein! Seems she’s figured out how to turn her conflict of interest problem into a new paycheck from O’Dwyer; clever.

What level of loyalty and honor might USAPA expect from such an opportunist, should she suffer another reversal of fortune? You really can’t make these stories up. Truth is more fantastical than fantasy, where Cleary is involved.

The intrigue may not end here, seems another Office Romance is blossoming. Apparently there must not be enough Union work to keep Cleary’s boys on task.

Ladies and Gentlemen; is this what you imagined, when you voted for an independent union?

Fraternally,

Woody Menear
PHL B767

Eric Rowe
PHL AB 330

And this is exactly why the west will be voting for Cleary.

You don't even have to try and make life difficult for them. They do it on their own.