US Pilots Labor Discussion

[luvn737s]

How are you going to pay back all the money you have cost us? How are you going to repay all of the upgrades you have taken? How are you going to repay the time you have cost us?

"Well that's the last of the horses. You guys want to help us close the barn door?"

 

[BoeingBoy]

When or if the Nic is ruled to be the only usable integrated seniority list, I wouldn't be surprised to see USAPA take a different tack in contract negotiations - it's been mentioned occasionally here. With Nic firmly established, I'd anticipate that everything in the contract based on seniority would be proposed to be based of DOH or LOS instead. Pay rates - a 25-30 year scale for each seat based on DOH/LOS. Equipment and monthly bids - awarded by DOH/LOS. Vacation - DOH/LOS. Etc. Basically, the west would get their place on the Nic list - a seniority number - but that number wouldn't be any good for anything.
Jim

 

[Captain Underpants]

As far as we can tell, there has never been a case where the NMB reversed a single carrier determination for the purposes of allowing two groups within the formerly single carrier to negotiate. Never. Single carrier status marked the passing of the event horizon - there's no going back. The company is the entity that filed for and received single carrier. Parker is the one, yet he also is chirping about compromise to the West; as if it's our fault. Unbelievable. He did his part and Bradford did USAPA's part to create this all-or-nothing paradigm, yet now it's USAPA and Parker saying the West has to compromise. After what those two have done, how?

aqua,

You are correct that the West pilots can't directly negotiate contract terms with the company because the RLA can only recognize USAPA as the bargaining agent for the entire pilot group.

The West pilots individually or in groups can always discuss with USAPA what contract terms or proposals they would like USAPA to present to the company. Both USAPA and the company will likely soon ask the court to strongly "encourage" the West to participate in mediated talks. Both USAPA and the company want mediated seniority negotiations between the West pilot class and USAPA to try to reach a mutually acceptable seniority settlement which would then jointly be presented to the court. If the court approved the settlement it would then be presented to the company by USAPA included in a contract proposal to be ratified and implemented.

Of course the West pilots don't have to show up or they can show up and insist on Nic which is the same thing as not showing up.

underpants

 

[aquagreen73s]

When or if the Nic is ruled to be the only usable integrated seniority list, I wouldn't be surprised to see USAPA take a different tack in contract negotiations - it's been mentioned occasionally here. With Nic firmly established, I'd anticipate that everything in the contract based on seniority would be proposed to be based of DOH or LOS instead. Pay rates - a 25-30 year scale for each seat based on DOH/LOS. Equipment and monthly bids - awarded by DOH/LOS. Vacation - DOH/LOS. Etc. Basically, the west would get their place on the Nic list - a seniority number - but that number wouldn't be any good for anything.
Jim

Sans the equipment bids going DOH/LOS (I doubt that would pass DFR scrutiny), the rest of it are the trimmings outside of S22. Had the East been smart, that's the path they would have pursued several years ago. But that was then and this is now. With all the evidence compiled of USAPA's bad faith representation of the West, if you're the company you've got to be leery of agreeing to anything that resembles a DFR.

 

[Barrister]

Not sure who Jerry is, but feel free to keep guessing.

Perhaps you misunderstand what I wrote. Yielding more ground than what the NIC already gave "them" is a reference to what NIC gave the east not the west. The east got the top 517 WB super seniority positions and then 2/3 of the rest of the NB seniority slots for active pilots at the PID. Under the NIC every active east pilot gained relative seniority compared to the corresponding west pilot. So, the west already gave the east substantial relative seniority improvements under the NIC as a result of binding arbitration. Now Cleary is proposing the west give the east pilots even more. The NIC is no windfall for the west, that's just a false propaganda campaign that seems to have worked quite effectively on those who are willfully ignorant of the facts.

You are one sick dude. The guys flying those widebodies were here while you were in grade school.
You can stay in your right seat foranother 20 years.

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[luvn737s]

Of course the West pilots don't have to show up or they can show up and insist on Nic which is the same thing as not showing up.

If the representatives of the west class decide to wholesale compromise, do we get to sue them for a DFR? How are they elected? Recalled? Financed?

 

[prechilill]

You are one sick dude. The guys flying those widebodies were here while you were in grade school.
You can stay in your right seat foranother 20 years.

NICDOA
NPJB

PIBrat doesn't appreciate your mean-spirited tone mister! OMG- you're an east pilot- never mind...I'm sure PIBrat will gladly pardon you... My mistake.

 

[Captain Underpants]

If the representatives of the west class decide to wholesale compromise, do we get to sue them for a DFR? How are they elected? Recalled? Financed?

If you don't trust the West class representatives you can opt out of the class by notifying the AOL attorneys in writing and reserve your right to sue USAPA as an individual later.

underpants

 

[cleardirect]

aqua,

You are correct that the West pilots can't directly negotiate contract terms with the company because the RLA can only recognize USAPA as the bargaining agent for the entire pilot group.

The West pilots individually or in groups can always discuss with USAPA what contract terms or proposals they would like USAPA to present to the company. Both USAPA and the company will likely soon ask the court to strongly "encourage" the West to participate in mediated talks. Both USAPA and the company want mediated seniority negotiations between the West pilot class and USAPA to try to reach a mutually acceptable seniority settlement which would then jointly be presented to the court. If the court approved the settlement it would then be presented to the company by USAPA included in a contract proposal to be ratified and implemented.

Of course the West pilots don't have to show up or they can show up and insist on Nic which is the same thing as not showing up.

underpants

You guys are always telling us that no court in the land can make you vote for a contract. Do you now think that a federal court and demand the west accept some mediated deal?

So what if we don't show up or show up and stand on the Nicolau. The court going to impose a deal? No we just wasted time and continue to trial.

In one of your posts you said that NOW the west is a certified class we can negotiate. We were certified as a class in the Addington case. Where was the willingness to compromise then? What has changed? Lots I guess. Not so "supremely confident" this time in court? New smarter lawyer. Reality creeping into the east. 4 years of nothing from usapa.

No compromise, no negotiations. You guys got nothing to offer to get us off the Nicolau.

 

[prechilill]

If you don't trust the West class representatives you can opt out of the class by notifying the AOL attorneys in writing and reserve your right to sue USAPA as an individual later.

underpants

Dude, you are definitely one of the most entertaining acts around here- the USAPA circus has come through at least in the laugh-a-minute category. Thanks for posting, and I sincerely mean that! Take care

 

[OTTER574]

If you don't trust the West class representatives you can opt out of the class by notifying the AOL attorneys in writing and reserve your right to sue USAPA as an individual later.

underpants

WOW! What meds are you on underpants?

Your trying to rewrite the RLA (west forced paid union dues or BE FIRED) and a NMB process to support corrupt usapa in it's final days.

Hope to see you in Federal District Court on December 1st in Judge Silver's courtroom. Myself and many others will be the one's wearing our AOL RINGS!


OTTER

 

[Reed Richards]

Dude, you are definitely one of the most entertaining acts around here- the USAPA circus has come through at least in the laugh-a-minute category. Thanks for posting, and I sincerely mean that! Take care

Just catching up on the last 24 here, what a self inflicted manic roller coaster of speculation.

Make up your minds..did you just get a "win" from Cleary, or not?

The path is the same, but it has just been illuminated for you one last(?) time.

After the report I got from the rah rah meeting last week, I wouild love to be a fly on Marty's office wall today.

RR

 

[OTTER574]

Just catching up on the last 24 here, what a self inflicted manic roller coaster of speculation.

Make up your minds..did you just get a "win" from Cleary, or not?

The path is the same, but it has just been illuminated for you one last(?) time.

After the report I got from the rah rah meeting last week, I wouild love to be a fly on Marty's office wall today.

RR

Current usapa's last days of desperation and cleary trying to protect his east moderate flanks...That's all it is.

Sorry, but no Wye River 2 for you!

OTTER

 

[BoeingBoy]

the rah rah meeting last week

I think that says it all, don't you?

Jim

 

[prechilill]

Just catching up on the last 24 here, what a self inflicted manic roller coaster of speculation.

Make up your minds..did you just get a "win" from Cleary, or not?

The path is the same, but it has just been illuminated for you one last(?) time.

After the report I got from the rah rah meeting last week, I wouild love to be a fly on Marty's office wall today.

RR

Reed, good to hear you are still here- we know you are reeling over the latest from Cleary and this must be difficult for some of you out east that are emotionally tied too tight. Things will be ok, Nicolau handed you guys a nice bump in relative seniority. In a couple of years we will all be friends