US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

I'm glad Southwest, Northwest, Delta, AirTran, Trump pilots and USAir pilots (and most likely CAL/ UAL pilots) agree with you...
Oh wait- none of those groups have used Date of Hire.

Guess you're on your own island there champ!

All the other work groups at USAir that did use DOH, were they wholly irrational and arbitrary?

 

[nycbusdriver]

deleted

Great post!!

Yeah, finally a glimmer of something intelligent from the purveyor of madeupfacts.com.

 

[luvthe9]

Leonidas Update: November 23, 2011

Dear former America West Pilots,
Let me be clear: The former AWA pilots may be intransigent, but we are not being unreasonable when we demand the results of Nicolau arbitration! We believe the Nicolau Award is BOTH fair and equitable, AND final and binding. We will not cease to assert our rights now just because that would be more convenient for USAPA.
Sincerely,

Eric Ferguson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow, this guy has done more to damage you westies than anyone else, what an ego. Well again enjoy being the lowest paid and all that stagnation, we have heard form a lot of the more senior westies they are fed up with Ferguson, they seem to realize the situation.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Wow, this guy has done more to damage you westies than anyone else, what an ego. Well again enjoy being the lowest paid and all that stagnation, we have heard form a lot of the more senior westies they are fed up with Ferguson, they seem to realize the situation.

Total BS. Total BS! You're hilarious luv!

The Nic cometh.

 

[Phoenix]

The question as it pertains to uSAPa is how wide is a wide range of reasonableness AFTER a binding arbitration?

Recorded history didn't start with the formation of uSAPa.

The 9th left USAPA and the company free to bargain and referenced the wide range of reasonableness standard of DFR from the SCOTUS. Wake wanted to see things your way and mandated that USAPA be bound by the previous arbitration during its current bargaining with the company. In case you missed it, the 9th removed that Wake induced binding requirement and left USAPA and the company free to bargain, as they were before Wake stuck his nose where he didn't belong.

 

[USA320Pilot]

In my opinion, the beginning of the next step of the implementation of the Nicolau Award begins on December 2, 2011.

 

[USA320Pilot]

DCA Domicile Update: November 23, 2011

Fellow DCA Pilots,

Many of you have been asking us about recent events within our union that concern you. To be brief:

1.) The President's Message of November 17 mentions that USAPA leadership has discussed the seniority issue facing us and the decision to take a look at options to find a viable solution for both sides. While we have debated this issue, we want to clarify the issue and remind you of the following taken from the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws:

SECTION 8 - OBJECTIVES OF USAPA

D. To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot's un-merged career expectations.

While we continue to attempt to think outside of the box to find a common solution, we want to emphasize that a date-of-hire-based seniority list, is mandated by our Constitution. To accept any change to this founding principle of USAPA would require a constitutional amendment ratified by the entire membership. Unlike the former union, your Board cannot mandate a fundamental change of this stature without your consent and approval.

2.) We have no information on the VP's alleged role in unlawful emails, other than the court documents which were presented to the Board in the EVP's report. No discussion regarding this report occurred during the BPR conference call on November 15, as we did not have adequate time to review its contents prior to the call. It is important to note that the conference call was in open session and that fact was confirmed more than once during the call. We are grateful that this information was made available to the BPR and to the pilot group. We are fully aware of the serious nature of these allegations and will be working towards addressing them in the near future. One of our representational responsibilities is to protect the Association and you can be assured that if any willful misconduct or knowledge of misconduct by any officer took place, we will deal with it swiftly and decisively. When we have more information, we will pass it along.

In closing, we both want to extend our warmest regards to each of you, and your families, during this Thanksgiving holiday. If you're flying during part, or all of this holiday, remember that your crew is your family on the road. Try to spend some quality time with them, just as you would with your own family. As a union, we all need to be here to support each other.

Fraternally,

Joe and Pete

Joe Stein
DCA Chairman
Jstein@usairlinepilots.org

Pete Dugstad
DCA Vice Chairman
Pdugstad@usairlinepilots.org

Or reach us both at:
DCA@usairlinepilots.org

 

[Phoenix]

In my opinion, the beginning of the next step of the implementation of the Nicolau Award begins on December 2, 2011.

Now that you have showered your karma on it, Nic is jinxed to the same dust bin as the United/USAir UCT.

 

[nic4us]

How wide is a wide range of reasonableness? Anything short of wholly irrational or arbitrary.


“[T]he final product of the bargaining process may constitute evidence of a breach of duty only if it can be fairly characterized as so far outside a ‘wide range of reasonableness,’ that it is wholly ‘irrational’ or ‘arbitrary.’ “

In typical usapaian fashion, you left off the most important part of the quote.

that a union breaches its duty of fair representation if its actions are either "arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith" — applies to all union activity, including contract negotiation. We further hold that a union's actions are arbitrary only if, in light of the factual and legal landscape at the time of the union's actions, the union's behavior is so far outside a "wide range of reasonableness," Ford Motor Co. v. Huffman, 345 U.S. 330, 338 (1953), as to be irrational.


Your "wide range of reasonableness" arguement falls far outside that range, because of usapa...i.e. the east pilots.. BAD FAITH attempt to usurp their own agreement to submit to BINDING ARBITRATION.

 

[CallawayGolf]

In my opinion, the beginning of the next step of the implementation of the Nicolau Award begins on December 2, 2011.

No doubt. After reading through the case management filing, here's what I observed:

The company supports alternatives/counts 1,2 & 3 and summary judgement

The west class support alternative/count 1 and opposes count 2 & 3, and supports summary judgement

USAPA supports alternative/count 2 and opposes counts 1 & 3 and is open to a summary judgement.

If Silver takes these positions into account, that will effectively invalidate count three as an option (indemnification from US liability over seniority) since 2/3 of the parties oppose it. That leaves her with the most basic and fundamental dispute options of 1 & 2 to decide upon. Given that Addington I (referenced repeatedly) resulted in a DFR against USAPA it seems nearly certain that Silver will not support count 2 (a non-NIC list is not a DFR) in any conceivable fashion. That only leaves count 1 (a non-NIC list is a DFR) and it seems highly likely that she will rule in the affirmative on that count. Given that all parties have agreed that a summary judgement may be appropriate, I would say that such a ruling may be forthcoming. She may not go the summary judgment route, but it seems more likely now that there was no strong opposition to such a ruling by all three parties. All of the answers will not come on December 2nd, but that should start a very interesting chain of events that will lead to a resolution in her courtroom sometime in 2012, perhaps early in the year rather than later.

 

[aquagreen73s]

That only leaves count 1 (a non-NIC list is a DFR) and it seems highly likely that she will rule in the affirmative on that count.

What's advantageous for the West is that she doesn't even have to rule on that count specifically; she can stop short by ruling in the negative - use of the Nicolau is not a violation of the RLA and just stop there. It's clear that either company or the union has the freedom to insist on the results of an arbitration. Here, that arbitration is a part of a written contract as between the pilots and the company. If she wanted to cutail her ruling to just saying that it's not a violation of the RLA for the company to insist on the Nicolau, it would take five minutes to write and be absolutely appeal proof. I think like you that she has the subject matter jurisdiction to actually go a lot further and rule on USAPA's DFR, but the farther she goes to that end the wider the appeal envelope. It all depends on her. What is completely out of the question is Count II because as you say, it'd be directly contradicting what one jury down the hall found two years ago. Ain't going to happen. No way, no how.

 

[CallawayGolf]

What's advantageous for the West is that she doesn't even have to rule on that count specifically; she can stop short by ruling in the negative - use of the Nicolau is not a violation of the RLA and just stop there. It's clear that either company or the union has the freedom to insist on the results of an arbitration. Here, that arbitration is a part of a written contract as between the pilots and the company. If she wanted to cutail her ruling to just saying that it's not a violation of the RLA for the company to insist on the Nicolau, it would take five minutes to write and be absolutely appeal proof. I think like you that she has the subject matter jurisdiction to actually go a lot further and rule on USAPA's DFR, but the farther she goes to that end the wider the appeal envelope. It all depends on her. What is completely out of the question is Count II because as you say, it'd be directly contradicting what one jury down the hall found two years ago. Ain't going to happen. No way, no how.

I see your point. She would effectively be telling the Company that they cannot be harmed by insisting on the NIC. This would translate over to the mediator for the JCBA who would reject USAPA's request to being released for self-help if negotiations ever make it that far. Not quite as satisfying as a full endorsement that a non-NIC is a DFR, but it would provide a level of relief sought by Management.

Cleary must be on the edge of the cliff right now. The LOA 93 decision is coming, his new legal team is encouraging a new round of mediations instead of showing confidence in a win on option 2 based on $eham's intentionally poor reading of the Ninth's ruling, serious financial problems with mounting legal bills and more court cases that USAPA can afford, and an election coming up. That's a lot of negatives for one pathological narcissist to deal with.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Cleary must be on the edge of the cliff right now. The LOA 93 decision is coming, his new legal team is encouraging a new round of mediations instead of showing confidence in a win on option 2 based on $eham's intentionally poor reading of the Ninth's ruling, serious financial problems with mounting legal bills and more court cases that USAPA can afford, and an election coming up. That's a lot of negatives for one pathological narcissist to deal with.

I think a lot of the true believers are starting to understand that it's a long way down over that cliff right in front of them.

 

[Black Swan]

No matter which way you slice it, that's the reality. It's inescapable. The company has been content with operating the airline on a BK contract for the East, sans illegal work action but that was taken care of for only a few million in legal fees. Now the company owns USAPA. USAPA is the company's ####. Yesterday's case management filing tells everyone which way the company is headed. A joint contract with the Nicolau will be here sooner than anyone thinks.

The magic fairies are visiting Parker and Kirby right now. He is finally going to offer you that massive pay raise, and the East pilots are at this moment realizing the money is forthcoming, and the Nicolau inevitable. Again, the 9th got it wrong, as you have constantly proven.


"ALPA had been unable to broker a compromise
between the two pilot groups, and the East Pilots had
expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the
Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated." 9th Court of Appleals, San Francisco

 

[cactusboy53]

Thats because this place is a damn joke and everyone outside of here is laughing saying dont do what they did. Its laughable to think the there is even the mention of a mediation when we've done that already and its results produced an arbitration. The award MUST be enforced or we just do away with the arbitration system all together and send each and every issue before the courts.

When I think of all the money wasted and management padding their pockets at my expense it boils the blood. The really sad part is there will NEVER be a time when the two groups can ever work together in the same cockpits now as the mutual hatred is so damn deep. It may be time for this place to liquidate.

Injunction

Nonsense. While disappointed at the lack of east integrity, I hate no one. Luv, Swanny, etc. Can yank gear for me anytime! Just paste a smile on your face and bring you good attitude.