US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Hate2fly]

Says the slave.

If Cleary owns all of these people why is he unable to accomplish anything?

If he owns Glass and the company where is that contract with DOH?

You guys are funny. So blind to reality. December 2 is going to be a good day.

clear,

Your anger gets in the way. AOL, Compass people and Chip's ALPA faithful all have way to much anger for Cleary. So much so you can't see straight.

Keep trying!

Hate

 

[mikey60]

And I've been trying to tell you you'll be on LOA93 that entire time...just won't listen.

And if were on LOA 93 that will make you the lowest paid pilots in the industry, right were you belong.

 

[cleardirect]

And if were on LOA 93 that will make you the lowest paid pilots in the industry, right were you belong.

But we are not on LOA 93. YOU ARE!

That makes you the lowest paid and lowest life pilots in the industry.

 

[cleardirect]

clear,

Your anger gets in the way. AOL, Compass people and Chip's ALPA faithful all have way to much anger for Cleary. So much so you can't see straight.

Keep trying!

Hate

I am not angry I am laughing at you. You said Cleary owned everyone. If that were the case how has he not accomplished anything. That does not make me angry but it must make you mad.

 

[mikey60]

No, this meeting with Cleary was not briefed. Cleary took it upon himself to do this without the consent of the reps.

And Eric was under no obligation to keep it a secret as Cleary plans on using it in the DJ.

No not really, he just gave his word but then again he's a lying westie with no integrity, shame, pride or anything that the guys in white hats have.

 

[cleardirect]

I believe you are referring to the Freedom mess post 9/11 correct?

That situation is not as clear as people want to believe. I do not know the specifics of the 2 you are talking about. But I do know a F/O that appears on the "Freedom List" or whatever it is called.

Back when this thing came up and he was offered a position with Freedom he called and then wrote to ALPA concerning this subject. the response letter he received from ALPA he still has. I do not remember the exact statement, however suffice it to say that ALPA National stated in the letter that he would not be violating any agreements or crossing any type of line by accepting the position.

It was not until he was almost done with training that the position changed from ALPA national. So in his case and others like him who were furloughed, they ended up on a list that was not a list when they started.

If anybody still has access to the ALPA boards this was a hot topic. Would be interesting to see if those threads are still in the archives. This topic I believe was one of the issues that eventually ended with ALPA removing the furloughed pilots from the ALPA boards. At the time it appeared that they wanted do a bit of revisionist history and the furloughed guys got in the way, along with some other topics the furloughed were very vocal about. Back then the order of the day at ALPA seemed to be "If we don't like what they have to say, don't let them say it."

I think how ALPA treated the furloughed guys on this issue and others directly led to ALPA getting voted off the property. The cast off masses that ALPA had no time for back then, were back on the property in time to provide the required votes to remove ALPA.

If I remember correct one of our esteemed self appointed guru posters here who we all know, was all over the ALPA boards at the time leading the charge to have the furloughed guys removed from the boards.

I don't care what people have to say, and I always encourage people to speak what they feel no matter if I agree with it or not. But what I saw happening on the ALPA boards back then and the censorship disgusted me.

That is a lot of words to justify going to a carrier to be a captain in order to hurt fellow pilots.

There is only one thing that needs to be said about this.

ALPA your union at the time told the members not to go to Freedom. Crimi violated that because he wanted to jump ahead of someone else. He ignored his union and you justify his actions.


What no comment on your mistake about the "sizable" number of top 517 that have retired?

View PostKeroseneuser, on 24 November 2011 - 10:19 AM, said:


For 1/3 of the active east list NIC is nothing but bad, for the middle to upper seniority NIC is mostly all bad. The only ones that really would do well under a NIC and the current offers we have seen is the top 517 on the NIC list, of which a sizable group is already retired.

And you would be incorrect AGAIN. Unless you consider 29 a sizable group to retire after 5 years. But don't let the facts get in the way of your fantasy and all powerful attrition argument.

 

[mikey60]

I totally get your thought that it is no longer 2005, and people will do what is important today, however, your numbers are way off. So, the idea that a new hire would be better off staying on LOA93 for the next 15 years, over a Nic inclusive contract is plain stupid.

The only difference between today and the 2 year number from 2005, is that likely many West junior pilots (100 or so) have left to never return, and there has been a few years of out of seniority upgrades.

So, for the east pilot who just upgraded, they did not have the 2 year penalty, but if Nic were implemented today, the east pilot one junior to that would get like a 4 year wai, while the West pilot who already incured their penalty, upgrade.

Seriously, if I were a newhire, and my choices were, upgrade in 7-8 years, and work on LOA93 for most of my career, or use the Nic, complete the merger, upgrade in 9-10 years and make 20% more starting today, and much more in the future, I would be a complete idiot if I chose LOA93.

Now we see why you went to work for awe.

 

[Hate2fly]

I am not angry I am laughing at you. You said Cleary owned everyone. If that were the case how has he not accomplished anything. That does not make me angry but it must make you mad.

clear,

Certain events will unfold in the coming weeks that will have your head spinning. Cleary is so many steps ahead of you and your buddies. Anger is a terrible thing!

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

No not really, he just gave his word but then again he's a lying westie with no integrity, shame, pride or anything that the guys in white hats have.

You and the east pilots gave your word that you would abide by final and binding arbitration. Does that mean you have no integrity, shame or pride?

You need to read more closely.

I avowed to him that I would not disclose the fact that we had met to anyone without an absolute need to know, and that if this information were to come to light, it would not be as a result of anyone on my team.

In addition, there were a couple of BPR meetings in the intervening weeks since our lunch date, and during each of these meetings, your PHX representatives made it crystal-clear to the BPR and officers that we could not, and would not accept an invitation to mediate.

usapa itself also released this information in it's court filings.

The BPR knew about the meeting because it was discussed at the meeting. It seems what you are most upset about is your president did not tell the membership about his secret meeting to give away DOH. I thought only ALPA had secret meetings and gave stuff away. usapa was going to fix that. Could it be the east pilots and not the organization that is corrupt?

Did the line pilots get to vote to send Cleary to DFW? Was that done without member input? How can that be?

 

[Hate2fly]

You and the east pilots gave your word that you would abide by final and binding arbitration. Does that mean you have no integrity, shame or pride?

You need to read more closely.






usapa itself also released this information in it's court filings.

The BPR knew about the meeting because it was discussed at the meeting. It seems what you are most upset about is your president did not tell the membership about his secret meeting to give away DOH. I thought only ALPA had secret meetings and gave stuff away. usapa was going to fix that. Could it be the east pilots and not the organization that is corrupt?

Did the line pilots get to vote to send Cleary to DFW? Was that done without member input? How can that be?

clear,

I thought you guys loved Cleary. You seem upset today.

Hate

 

[cleardirect]

clear,

I thought you guys loved Cleary. You seem upset today.

Hate

You guys seem to love Cleary and all of his antics. Why are you not upset with him?

 

[Code Name V]

Right. The Transition Agreement clearly requires the Nicolau Award to be implemented, which is why Judge Silver will rule in Leonidas' favor. The pilot contract does not say may or could, the contract states the two pilot groups "will" be integrated per the arbitrator's decision. USAPA cannot pick and choose what part of the contract it wants to abide by and what part it wants to disregard. This is why USAPA was found guilty of DFR and why the Ninth indicated it was not a question of whether or not USAPA would be guilty of DFR...only the timing of DFR.

It's over for USAPA...

As usual, you are off base once again! If it was so 'clear' we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. I love it however when you are so definitive on what will and will not happen. Don't you ever learn from your screw ups? Your crystal ball has been broken for 15 years. You need to get your 'sources' to provide a new one. Reread the 9th. No judge in this country is ready to rerwite labor law and can not force a union to violate their own bylaws. Silver would love to rule against USAPA, like Wake but will find herself in the same dilemma if she tries to do so. This will not be decided any time soon by any court and at best will drag on for years; possibly through the ninth and supreme courts again if necessary. Even the ninth understood that the only way this will ever be resolved is through negotiation and it is likely that Silver understands this as well. Even then nothing can ever be 'forced' on anyone due to the requirment for a majority vote; hence the stalemate. But hang in there with your 'clear' understanding of labor law. Maybe you will be offered a job as a clerk when you lose your job next time...

V

 

[Hate2fly]

You guys seem to love Cleary and all of his antics. Why are you not upset with him?

clear,

Why would I be upset with Cleary? He is doing exactly what we want him to do.

Hate

 

[luvthe9]

Reread the 9th. No judge in this country is ready to rerwite labor law and can not force a union to violate their own bylaws. ...

V

This just about sums it all up and with a LOA93 win, well you can figure it out.

 

[Phoenix]

And of course the famous "my Sources", so speaks the fool.

All the "furthermore"s and "moreover"s coupled with unbiased FUD will never set aside the fact that capitulation is the best he hopes for. If he didn't see our capitulation as the only way to his next pay raise, then he wouldn't be groveling all the time.

Everything is negotiable in negotiations. Wake found out the hard way.