US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Hate2fly]

Like being enjoined? Keeping you under LOA93? Looking for compromise? Bankrupting your union?

Did I miss anything?

Move,

Who cares? LOA 93 "Money Shot" We Tried. $4.2 million in the bank......try again.

You got it all figured out.

Hate

 

[BoeingBoy]

Let me ask you this. Why would your Captains be opposed to a DOH and a raise and fences protecting PHX and their Captains seat?

USAPA has had over 3 years to offer this but hasn't. Do you really expect that to change?

Jim

 

[Move2CLT]

Move,

Who cares? LOA 93 "Money Shot" We Tried. $4.2 million in the bank......try again.

You got it all figured out.

Hate

Ya, who cares. Your union has been emasculated and LOA 93 is still a fact of life.

Sounds like you got it all figured out.

 

[nic4us]

Now we see why you went to work for awe.

Well, I do not recall a specific spelling test being part of the interview process, but it would explain why the only way you could have gotten to work at AWA was through a backdoor such as an AWA aquisition of AAA.


PS..check the header on the release next time you fly one of our AWE aircraft there Mikey.

That should pretty much put into perspective whose seats they are, and who had the career expectation. But, if that don't do it for ya, just look up your Nic number and compare it to where you would be if you quit AAA in say '96 when you were furloughed and had passed the spelling test at AWA.

 

[nic4us]

Let me ask you this. Why would your Captains be opposed to a DOH and a raise and fences protecting PHX and their Captains seat?

I cannot think of any reasons other than not being able to commute 5 hours to fly to europe.

Would be interesting to see how a DOH T/A vote would come out on the west at this point. As interesting as a NIC vote would be on the east. I am betting an industry standard DOH vote with above protections has just as good a chance at passing as the west thinks a NIC vote would on the east.

Thinking both USAPA and AOL leadership is afraid to put either out on a vote.

As a west captain, I can answere this one.

Because we don't have to settle for DOH and a small raise. Simple as that. We are getting the Nic and a raise, or you can pound sand.

A DOH contract put out to a vote would undoubtably pass, because the east has the majority. usapa can't put it out to a vote, because the company is not touching the DOH DFR. So, there will be no DOH TA put out to a vote until the company agrees to it. The company will never agree to it if it puts them on the hook with usapa.

 

[Move2CLT]

Let me ask you this. Why would your Captains be opposed to a DOH and a raise and fences protecting PHX and their Captains seat?

I cannot think of any reasons other than not being able to commute 5 hours to fly to europe.

Would be interesting to see how a DOH T/A vote would come out on the west at this point. As interesting as a NIC vote would be on the east. I am betting an industry standard DOH vote with above protections has just as good a chance at passing as the west thinks a NIC vote would on the east.

Thinking both USAPA and AOL leadership is afraid to put either out on a vote.

Because this is about more than protecting Phoenix. How is growth handled? New aircraft go where? Furloughs?

No, there will be no DOH because there doesn't have to be. We'll get our raises with Nic.

 

[nic4us]

As usual, you are off base once again! If it was so 'clear' we wouldn't be in this situation to begin with. I love it however when you are so definitive on what will and will not happen. Don't you ever learn from your screw ups? Your crystal ball has been broken for 15 years. You need to get your 'sources' to provide a new one. Reread the 9th. No judge in this country is ready to rerwite labor law and can not force a union to violate their own bylaws. Silver would love to rule against USAPA, like Wake but will find herself in the same dilemma if she tries to do so. This will not be decided any time soon by any court and at best will drag on for years; possibly through the ninth and supreme courts again if necessary. Even the ninth understood that the only way this will ever be resolved is through negotiation and it is likely that Silver understands this as well. Even then nothing can ever be 'forced' on anyone due to the requirment for a majority vote; hence the stalemate. But hang in there with your 'clear' understanding of labor law. Maybe you will be offered a job as a clerk when you lose your job next time...

V

Sorry V, but you are wrong again.

Any federal judge in this country will tell any union whose bylaws violate federal law, they have no protection from the shitstorm s/he is about to throw at them if they don't get in line.


Perhaps you should research how often DFR cases actually make it to the SCOTUS. I believe it has been there many times and there is lots of precedence. A union's actions cannot be arbitrary, discriminatory, or in bad faith. usapa fails all three, and any judge would have handed usapa their asses had they been able to get a DOH list shoved down the West pilots throats. Luckily for everybody involved, the company is not as stupid as the east pilots who fell for Seeham's scab antics, and the DOH list will never come to pass, regardless of usapa's bylaws.

Just ask any federal judge,,,,oh,,never mind,,the company is already asking for you!

 

[Keroseneuser]

USAPA has had over 3 years to offer this but hasn't. Do you really expect that to change?

Jim

I don't know, the west and AOL told USAPA to go away. So I guess we wont know what USAPA had in mind to try to break the deadlock.

But the good news is it looks like we get a few more years of tossing poo at each other while the endless court battle continues! Ah...NIC vs DOH. Kinda like two countires with Atomic weapons . Neither can use them but oh so much fun to argue and play strategic games with! 🙂

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't know, the west and AOL told USAPA to go away. So I guess we wont know what USAPA had in mind to try to break the deadlock.

As the sole bargaining representative, USAPA could have and still can change it's proposal at any time. So the question remains - why hasn't it done so if it's serious? One could certainly come to the conclusion that this "offer" is nothing but another delay tactic...

Jim

 

[flybynite]

While you guys have pissed around over this one issue for how many years now??? What have you done with your other contract improvements? Work rules? Rigs? Vacation? Sick time?

I want to know if you've done a damn thing and if not....it's time to get off the pot!!!

I know you can table the seniority issuse for a while but what have you done for all of the other issues???

 

[BoeingBoy]

Since there cannot be a joint contract implemented until the seniority mess is over, nothing comes to mind. There was the East LOA 93 pay grievance that's still awaiting the arbitrator's ruling (my opinion: reinstate the annual 3% pay increases at best). After re-opening all the contract sections close out while ALPA was still the CBA, 5 or 6 have again been closed but that's it.

Jim

 

[Res Judicata]

While you guys have pissed around over this one issue for how many years now??? What have you done with your other contract improvements? Work rules? Rigs? Vacation? Sick time?

I want to know if you've done a damn thing and if not....it's time to get off the pot!!!

I know you can table the seniority issuse for a while but what have you done for all of the other issues???

Are you high? There IS No other issue. Without a seniority List, there is no contract. Would have thought you'd know that by now.

 

[Move2CLT]

I don't know, the west and AOL told USAPA to go away. So I guess we wont know what USAPA had in mind to try to break the deadlock.

But the good news is it looks like we get a few more years of tossing poo at each other while the endless court battle continues! Ah...NIC vs DOH. Kinda like two countires with Atomic weapons . Neither can use them but oh so much fun to argue and play strategic games with! 🙂

Funny, when USAPA came on property I remember them telling the west to go away and then telling us how they were going to cram DOH down our throats.

Did you forget that? :unsure:

 

[Move2CLT]

While you guys have pissed around over this one issue for how many years now??? What have you done with your other contract improvements? Work rules? Rigs? Vacation? Sick time?

I want to know if you've done a damn thing and if not....it's time to get off the pot!!!

I know you can table the seniority issuse for a while but what have you done for all of the other issues???

Way to just jump in with that uninformed post.

Get a clue before you start to rant and look like a fool.

 

[flybynite]

Are you high? There IS No other issue. Without a seniority List, there is no contract. Would have thought you'd know that by now.

No...I'm not high you dim wit!

Just because you don't have a bloody list doesn't prevent you from negotiating other areas of your contract. Such as rigs!!!

Your seniority list is one area that has been tabled until such time you can get one. It has no bearing on other areas of your contract that needs improvement. If you believe other wise....then you are being played by the company...🙂