US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

I wouldn't consider $190+/hr for an A320 Captain exactly giving away the farm. That, for you, would be close to a $40/hr raise, would it not?


Driver B)

Asking is a long way from getting. If all you care about is pay rate good for you. That would be a $65 raise plus vacation plus better work rules. What else for the west? Higher insurance, less short term and long term, no base protection.

Unlike you the west has better work rules. The NAC is giving away west work rules for east pay rates.

Besides if all you want is pay rates why not accept the Nicolau and the pay rates?

 

[Black Swan]

So,,another week has gone by,,,even though it was a short holiday week,,and still no Kasher decision.

Man, I think for my next job I am going to be an arbitrator. What an easy gig. Find two parties in dispute, listen to dispute, tell them you will sove their dilema in a fair manner, then just go on vacation for two years with the quarter million they gave you.

Then wait for the first of the two parties to complain about how long it is taking, wait another 6 months and rule against that party. Where do I sign up?

Another of the believers in the AQUAMAN FANTASY.....

 

[Black Swan]

Asking is a long way from getting. If all you care about is pay rate good for you. That would be a $65 raise plus vacation plus better work rules. What else for the west? Higher insurance, less short term and long term, no base protection.

Unlike you the west has better work rules. The NAC is giving away west work rules for east pay rates.

Besides if all you want is pay rates why not accept the Nicolau and the pay rates?

Another AQUAMAN FANTASY believer. Begging for acceptance of the Nic. The fantasy is the pay raises.

 

[Black Swan]

And what's different? You wanted DOH before and you still want it now despite the arbitration award. We don't want DOH and we don't want C & Rs.

Nothing has changed other then the process has been completed.

If you want to move this forward then accept the Nic award.

And by "we" I assume you mean you and the rest of your east buddies, right?

Another member of the Beggars Banquet

 

[Zone5]

USAPA has had over 3 years to offer this but hasn't. Do you really expect that to change?

Jim

Yes. If mediation proceeds, I suspect it will most likely be offered along with a few other goodies. I see no reason that the "harm" perceived by the West, cannot be adequately addressed by a DOH based contract incorporating REAL C&R's to protect both sides' career expectations and avoid windfalls to all.

A mediated, JCBA, ratified by a majority of BOTH West and East pilots, would constitute a steep hill to climb by a DFR attempt from either side of the Mississippi.

The olive branch has been offered up, the West reaction will not be well received by the Judge.

seajay

 

[Code Name V]

Go back and listen to the oral arguments from the ninth. One of the questions from Graber was what if a union were to write an a provision that places all women junior to all men. Sehams answer was the union would just ignore it!

If not using an arbitration is found to be illegal usapa will ignore it.

Also you need to read the usapa C&BL a little closer. Where does it say that DOH is required?

Section 8: Objectives: D. To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations.

Unless you are trying to rewrite their constitution, I think you would have a tough time trying to say it's not required.

Also, in regards to the DFR issue; all of the pilots, including you would have another DFR if they did not follow this basic premise.

V

 

[Zone5]

Well, I do not recall a specific spelling test being part of the interview process, but it would explain why the only way you could have gotten to work at AWA was through a backdoor such as an AWA aquisition of AAA.


PS..check the header on the release next time you fly one of our AWE aircraft there Mikey.

That should pretty much put into perspective whose seats they are, and who had the career expectation. But, if that don't do it for ya, just look up your Nic number and compare it to where you would be if you quit AAA in say '96 when you were furloughed and had passed the spelling test at AWA.

Check the FMC on your 767 going to Europe, after it is properly programmed the next time you fly, it will say AWE7XX. Oh wait, never mind.

seajay

 

[Piedmont1984]

Section 8: Objectives: D. To maintain uniform principles of seniority based on date of hire and the perpetuation thereof, with reasonable conditions and restrictions to preserve each pilot’s un-merged career expectations.

Unless you are trying to rewrite their constitution, I think you would have a tough time trying to say it's not required.

Also, in regards to the DFR issue; all of the pilots, including you would have another DFR if they did not follow this basic premise.

V

I think you can interpret the phrase "principles of seniority based on date of hire" a number of ways. And I think Cleary has begun doing so in his mediation letter. Longevity is based on DOH. Even reasonable slotting which protects longevity is based on DOH.

It all falls within a wide range of reasonableness.

 

[Zone5]

Sounds reasonable to me.....🙂

Me too!

As I have said before, several times on this board, the company does not care how the pilots decide the SLI. "Dougie" has publicly said so on several occasions on the Crew News videos. Their only interest in the SLI issue (outside of the impact on a contemplated future merger) is its value as a wedge between the pilot groups which provides them an excuse to not address all the other sections of a proposed JCBA and in the process save tons of money on pilot cost.

seajay

 

[Code Name V]

I think you can interpret the phrase "principles of seniority based on date of hire" a number of ways. And I think Cleary has begun doing so in his mediation letter. Longevity is based on DOH. Even reasonable slotting which protects longevity is based on DOH.

It all falls within a wide range of reasonableness.

I suppose an attorney can say it means whatever he can convince a court it means. Based on that alone I would expect we would be in litigation for a very long time. Again, personally I don't think it matters as I expect separate ops will be the result.

V

 

[fodase]

Me too!

As I have said before, several times on this board, the company does not care how the pilots decide the SLI. "Dougie" has publicly said so on several occasions on the Crew News videos.
seajay

Well the pilots already decided the sli and the company accepted the result in writing and compensated both pilot groups for the completed SLI. If as you say the company doesn't care which sli is used, why have they not accepted usapa's proposed list?

 

[Rookie Jr]

Call Mike Cleary and ask him just how many west Captains call him a day.

They call him more than they call their own reps.

If that were true the west pilots wouldn't be calling to get information. Just calling to say f$%# you.

 

[Res Judicata]

Yes. If mediation proceeds, I suspect it will most likely be offered along with a few other goodies. I see no reason that the "harm" perceived by the West, cannot be adequately addressed by a DOH based contract incorporating REAL C&R's to protect both sides' career expectations and avoid windfalls to all.

A mediated, JCBA, ratified by a majority of BOTH West and East pilots, would constitute a steep hill to climb by a DFR attempt from either side of the Mississippi.

The olive branch has been offered up, the West reaction will not be well received by the Judge.

seajay

Shove it. See you in court.

 

[Move2CLT]

Another member of the Beggars Banquet

We're not the ones doing it on video now are we?

 

[Zone5]

Well the pilots already decided the sli and the company accepted the result in writing and compensated both pilot groups for the completed SLI. If as you say the company doesn't care which sli is used, why have they not accepted usapa's proposed list?

Because the company wants us to keep fighting over it!

Furthermore, USAPA's proposed list is not a good enough compromise and they know it, at least their new lawyers do. Hence the request to mediate further.

seajay