US Pilots Labor Discussion

[No Land Green]

Acceptability can only be determined by failed votes. How many failed votes have there been with the Nicolau? Answer: none. And we all know why....because it will pass on the East.

Do we currently have an industry standard TA to vote on or are you referring to the Kirby Industry Bottom of the Barrel Proposal? Whatever we wind up getting to vote on may be a 10 year plus deal, be sure and adjust your budgets, many of us did on the East after LOA 93 😉

 

[aquagreen73s]

Do we currently have an industry standard TA to vote on or are you referring to the Kirby Industry Bottom of the Barrel Proposal? Whatever we wind up getting to vote on may be a 10 year plus deal, be sure and adjust your budgets, many of us did on the East after LOA 93 😉

And that resulted in a lot of bankruptcies, failed marriages and a lot of anger. The West has been the target of the East anger. Still doesn't change the fact that it's outright silly to walk into a court and claim something can't happen when it has never been tested. Until then, everyone sees the "unacceptable" argument for what it is.

 

[aquagreen73s]

and guess what? It won't matter in the long run. Separate ops forever. No joint contract. live with whatever attrition we both have coming and hope your scope holds up in court when they dump PHX.

All the risk lies with the west.

We will stay on LOA93 and hope for a Kasher win which will be a game changer, and you will stagnate on the west with no hope of moving off of your current contract. Good enough for me and everyone I fly with; both domestic and international. I hope what you have is good enough for you...

V

Then why all the angst on the East?

Scope by the way is modified by the Transition Agreement. No worries on the West. The interesting thing would be if LCC went back into Ch11 and the East was still on LOA93.

 

[Res Judicata]

"Groundhog Day" responses back and forth will not accomplish spit.

If the current "first agreement" was acceptable to BOTH factions, it would indeed be the fastest resolution. Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on ones opinion) it's not.

Presumably, both factions would sit down with a clean sheet of paper and address all concerns as they exist today, with the goal of crafting a workable compromise acceptable and ratifiable by both sides.

Perhaps, this process would not produce an acceptable result, is that a reason not to try?

seajay

See you in Court!!! You geniuses couldnt have created yourselves a bigger mess if you hired professionals. Your leadership is wholly incompetent and brain damaged. This is YOUR [edited] mess and we are going to clean it up by mopping the floor with you sobs inFederal Court....AGAIN. That's it. End of story. Your chickens have come home to roost and they're beyond pissed off.

 

[No Land Green]

And that resulted in a lot of bankruptcies, failed marriages and a lot of anger. The West has been the target of the East anger. Still doesn't change the fact that it's outright silly to walk into a court and claim something can't happen when it has never been tested. Until then, everyone sees the "unacceptable" argument for what it is.

Regardless of what Seniority List gets used, there is still NOT an Industry Standard TA on the table. There probably never will be no matter what list gets used due to the WEAK EAST and WEST Pilots who continue to be under the influence of Industrial Psychology, YES they can afford to pay ALL of us. I don't buy into it, but many on both coasts do.

"anger" seems to be alive and well on the West Side, and I'm not referring to T-Bone........You need access to the East side to advance, the lack of that makes you very "angry". I'm not "angry" and none of this, nor the final outcome makes a hoot of difference to me.

Off to watch more football......NLG out.

 

[No Land Green]

See you in Court!!! You geniuses couldnt have created yourselves a bigger mess if you hired professionals. Your leadership is wholly incompetent and brain damaged. This is YOUR GOD DAMNED mess and we are going to clean it up by mopping the floor with you sobs inFederal Court....AGAIN. That's it. End of story. Your chickens have come home to roost and they're beyond pissed off.

ANGRY West First Officer, need I say more..........

 

[aquagreen73s]

Regardless of what Seniority List gets used, there is still NOT an Industry Standard TA on the table. There probably never will be no matter what list gets used due to the WEAK EAST and WEST Pilots who continue to be under the influence of Industrial Psychology, YES they can afford to pay ALL of us. I don't buy into it, but many on both coasts do.

"anger" seems to be alive and well on the West Side, and I'm not referring to T-Bone........You need access to the East side to advance, the lack of that makes you very "angry". I'm not "angry" and none of this, nor the final outcome makes a hoot of difference to me.

Off to watch more football......NLG out.

This is all the making of the East. You've been warned repeatedly by many entities over the last four years not to go the route you chose. Only the East can extricate themselves out of the corner you're in, starting with acceptance of the Nicolau. Many on the West want the East to eat the Nicolau out of principle. I actually am not one of them. I see it as a black and white legal reality. The only way out is the Nicolau.

 

[Black Swan]

Shove it. See you in court.

Exactly where we want you, and with the same stand. Imagine, standing before Judge Silver in this ongoing dispute since 2005. It is almost 2012. If the Nic were enforceable, it would have happened. The Judge is going to see that the present stance is going nowhere. In fact with each new hire class on the East, the Nic gets put further out of reach. They don't want any group coming in on top of them. They see where it is heading. Parker himself stated "THIS IS FOR YOU GUYS TO DECIDE" He clearly recognizes where this is headed. The only ones that still do not see it are the Leonidas founders on this board. They are the endangered group. The judge is going to make it perfectly clear this is an internal union dispute. The East group will NEVER ratify a NIC. contract. The 9th told you, Judge Silver is going to make it clear again. Leonidas is taking not only your money, but your chance at a contract. Wait until Kasher comes in. It will all be over for the junior West AQUAMAN FANTASY![/i ]Every time you say the Nicolau is the ONLY way out, I can roll out a court decision that says NO. Can You quote one that says it has to????

[7] Plaintiffs correctly note that certain West Pilots have
been furloughed, whereas they would still be working under
a single CBA implementing the Nicolau Award. It is, however,
at best, speculative that a single CBA incorporating the
Nicolau Award would be ratified if presented to the union’s
membership. ALPA had been unable to broker a compromise
between the two pilot groups, and the East Pilots had
expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the
Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated.

 

[Res Judicata]

Exactly where we want you

Oh yes. USAPA has been SO ENTHUSIASTIC to go to court over the years. You guys are too stupid to even realize how stupid you are.

 

[luvthe9]

See you in Court!!! You geniuses couldnt have created yourselves a bigger mess if you hired professionals. Your leadership is wholly incompetent and brain damaged. This is YOUR GOD DAMNED mess and we are going to clean it up by mopping the floor with you sobs inFederal Court....AGAIN. That's it. End of story. Your chickens have come home to roost and they're beyond pissed off.

Unable to control emotions!!! 😛 😛 No NIC for you ever.

 

[Black Swan]

Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the
parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the
CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA’s
seniority proposal — whatever USAPA’s final proposal ultimately
is. Because these contingencies make the claim speculative,
the issues are not yet fit for judicial decision.


[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3


So as many times as Aquaman rants and insists, and MOVE2CLT cries and pleads, amd Res Judicata whose name itself claims that what is already decided, it is all SMOKE. They have NOTHING on which to base their claims. Where the rest of us, have the 9th ruling.!!!

 

[luvthe9]

Damn right scab.

Your confused and upset please review all your brother scabs on the AWA list. Now go ahead and look. http://www.unbiasedfacts.org/MasterScabList.pdf

 

[luvthe9]

ANGRY West First Officer, need I say more..........

ANGRY "furloughed" West First Officer, more than likley.

 

[aquagreen73s]

So as many times as Aquaman rants and insists, and MOVE2CLT cries and pleads, amd Res Judicata whose name itself claims that what is already decided, it is all SMOKE. They have NOTHING on which to base their claims. Where the rest of us, have the 9th ruling.

You do realize that all the 9th did is say that the West can't ask the DFR question until there is a ratified contract, don't you? You do realize that the company is separate from the West, don't you? You do realize that nothing from the 9th's ruling speaks to when the company asks the DFR question, don't you?

 

[cleardirect]

and guess what? It won't matter in the long run. Separate ops forever. No joint contract. live with whatever attrition we both have coming and hope your scope holds up in court when they dump PHX.

All the risk lies with the west.

We will stay on LOA93 and hope for a Kasher win which will be a game changer, and you will stagnate on the west with no hope of moving off of your current contract. Good enough for me and everyone I fly with; both domestic and international. I hope what you have is good enough for you...

V

It is good enough. Because it is way better than what usapa is trying to get for us.

Separate ops is fine. Enjoy LOA 93 until all of you old guys leave. We will still be here.

The only way PHX gets dumped is with a new contract or a merger. A merger gives us other opportunities. No one has explained why or how you east guys think PHX gets dumped? Are we going BK? Is usapa giving away the T/A? Other than your fantasy thoughts.