US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Sigh. The TA is not a contract in the sense that you state. It is a "tentative agreement", subject to all the variety the future tosses it. It's validity with ALPA is unquestioned, yet is subject to interpretation without.

Don't know where you get stuff like this. The TA is an integral part of the east and west contracts unless or until superseded by a combined contract or a new TA. If by a new TA due to some mythical future merger, that TA would become a part of three contracts - east, west, and the contract of the merger partner's pilots. If another merger comes along and USAPA even hints at agreeing to changes in the TA that would affect the west unequally (like eliminating the west min fleet requirement) there'd be a DFR suit filed so fast Cleary's head would spin.

Jim

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

DFW,ORD,MIA,LGA. LAX as a "focus" city does mainly international flights. I don't see where PHX is near those hubs.

Now CLT is just down the road from MIA and PHL sits in the shadow of NY. You might want to contemplate your own future.

BTW learn to say "American". Finally someone is going to put a bullet in the zombie US Airways.

Your correct PHX is no where near those hubs in revenue, "your risk has just surfaced"!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Yes the TA is entittled "tentative agreement" but it is contractually a LETTER OF AGREEMENT. Just like that great LOA93 you have been working under for the last 7 years.

THIS LETTER OF AGREEMENT is made and entered into in accordance with the provisions of the Railway
Labor Act, as amended (the “Act”), by and between AMERICA WEST HOLDINGS CORPORATION
(“AWHC”), AMERICA WEST AIRLINES, INC. (“AMERICA WEST”), US AIRWAYS GROUP, INC. (“US
AIRWAYS GROUP”), US AIRWAYS, INC. (“US AIRWAYS”), and the AIR LINE PILOTS in the service of
AMERICA WEST and US AIRWAYS, respectively, as represented by the AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION
(hereinafter referred to as “the Association”) by and through the Master Executive Councils of the America
West and US Airways pilots (“America West MEC” and “US Airways MEC” respectively) (collectively
referred to as the “Parties”).

Don't vote for any contract with the Nic in it...I really do not care. But here is an interesting spin. Lets say Parker is right, and that we go into a merger with AA and do a three way seniority integration. i.e. AA/east/West as three seperate groups all to be merged into one list. Does an AA f/o make more than an east narrowbody captain? If so, you may find yourselves wishing you took the Nic. Seniority going something like AA widebody captains, then AA narrowbody captains, then West narrowbody captains, then AA widebody f/o, then AA narrowbody f/o, THEN east narrowbody captain, then West narrowbody f/o then, east 190 captains, then last and most definetly last the rest of the east f/os.

Or the WEST is sold with it's contract to say, REPUBLIC! A SCOPE THING!

 

[Move2CLT]

Classic little girl mindset.

Neither one of us is "wrong".

You and your single track immature mind would say the glass is half full or half empty.

I, and I would think most east pilots, would say the glass is twice the size needed.

Diametrically opposed views of Cleary yet no one is wrong.

 

[Move2CLT]

I guess you have not figured out that your lottery ticket is dead, you licked the printing off.

I guess you figured out that your DOH cramdown is dead. No one to use that KY on.

 

[Move2CLT]

And how has that whole "threat" thing been working out for you? After almost 5 years there are no court orders or judgments against USAPA concerning our dealings with PHX.

By definition, the T/A will have to change if a third party becomes involved. And no, it is not "your contract." We have been living under our respective contracts for the last 10 years or so.

The T/A was blueprint for a merger that never happened, kind of like a bargaining position for a previous union. The T/A indeed has teeth, but it is only so good once the parties abandon the merger for which it was intended. Unknown territory indeed for both sides. But thinking you ride into the sunset with a T/A that does not even apply to current events is fantasy.

Got scope?

RR

You're coming at it from the wrong direction RR.

You have to ask yourself what USAPA has gotten you after 5 years. You had the majority, the control, and the promises of a new contract and a DOH cramdown.

Where is all that? What have you achieved? Bankrupt union. Injunction. No merger fund.

So you've failed in every aspect.

What have we achieved? We've stopped you. No DOH cramdown. And the Nic is still on Parker's desk.

We've achieved our goals. We've been successfull.

 

[Reed Richards]

Don't know where you get stuff like this. The TA is an integral part of the east and west contracts unless or until superseded by a combined contract or a new TA. If by a new TA due to some mythical future merger, that TA would become a part of three contracts - east, west, and the contract of the merger partner's pilots. If another merger comes along and USAPA even hints at agreeing to changes in the TA that would affect the west unequally (like eliminating the west min fleet requirement) there'd be a DFR suit filed so fast Cleary's head would spin.

Jim

Why pick "min fleet change" as your fantasy DFR trigger. The fact is a new T/A might change the entire landscape. The overall sense of entitlement by certain posters here is mind numbing...as if anything the West has is sacrosanct and hell be it anyone make a change to their terrarium.

The AMR filing today tells us only change is coming. The beating of chests saying everything ELSE can change except issues dealing with the West is ludicrous.

We may all be equally or unequally unhappy with the road ahead, but lawsuits and DFR’s based on a transaction that was never completed will be a waste of time and moneys. Not that that will stop anyone.

RR

 

[Move2CLT]

DFW,ORD,MIA,LGA. LAX as a "focus" city does mainly international flights. I don't see where PHX is near those hubs.

Now CLT is just down the road from MIA and PHL sits in the shadow of NY. You might want to contemplate your own future.

BTW learn to say "American". Finally someone is going to put a bullet in the zombie US Airways.

Heh, heh, heh. Good one clear.

 

[Pi brat]

This place is so funny sometimes. AA files Ch11 and everyone here is figuring out how it will take out the other side. Let me throw another scenario out there.

Anybody remember the Hemmingway letter? Where Al announced that the company had the right to impose the east contract on the west? Well, let's say that Doug has Scott locked in the basement working on taking over AA. He has to settle this on first, and now quickly. Kasher should rule soon and if it is a loss, or at least a small win for the east, Doug pulls out the Hemmingway letter. He says, you have a seniority list-the nic. You have a contract-the east's. That folks completes out AWA/US merger. Don't like it? Take you nearly broke, divided 6 ways from Sunday union and sue us.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Why pick "min fleet change" as your fantasy DFR trigger.

It is possibly the biggest item that could be changed to harm the west. Plus all the eastie chants of scope in any next merger.

As long as there are two pilot contracts at US, a merger would add a third that would have to be incorporated into any transition agreement (maybe not "have to be added" but I doubt another pilot group would go without the protections of a TA). That would mean changes in the TA and changes are a perfect opportunity for USAPA to once again show how it shoots itself in the foot...

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

BTW learn to say "American". Finally someone is going to put a bullet in the zombie US Airways.

Ummm, you are part of the zombie. You better hope the bullet doesn't go right through your eye. That's figuratively, just in case you couldn't figure it out.

 

[Move2CLT]

It is possibly the biggest item that could be changed to harm the west. Plus all the eastie chants of scope in any next merger.

As long as there are two pilot contracts at US, a merger would add a third that would have to be incorporated into any transition agreement (maybe not "have to be added" but I doubt another pilot group would go without the protections of a TA). That would mean changes in the TA and changes are a perfect opportunity for USAPA to once again show how it shoots itself in the foot...

Jim

Spot on. What's bad about it is they've already got the gun loaded and pointed at their remaining foot and things just now got started.

 

[Move2CLT]

Ummm, you are part of the zombie. You better hope the bullet doesn't go right through your eye. That's figuratively, just in case you couldn't figure it out.

Since you are not an English teacher I am taking that as a personal threat.

 

[Move2CLT]

This place is so funny sometimes. AA files Ch11 and everyone here is figuring out how it will take out the other side. Let me throw another scenario out there.

Anybody remember the Hemmingway letter? Where Al announced that the company had the right to impose the east contract on the west? Well, let's say that Doug has Scott locked in the basement working on taking over AA. He has to settle this on first, and now quickly. Kasher should rule soon and if it is a loss, or at least a small win for the east, Doug pulls out the Hemmingway letter. He says, you have a seniority list-the nic. You have a contract-the east's. That folks completes out AWA/US merger. Don't like it? Take you nearly broke, divided 6 ways from Sunday union and sue us.

Cut the crap with the Hemmingway letter, please!

That letter was nothing more than a bluff. Don't you think tht if that were the case Parker would have done it immediately?

That letter was a fantasy. BS. Like this whole Republic wet dream you guys are having.

 

[Pi brat]

Since you are not an English teacher I am taking that as a personal threat.

From your other post, that line of reasoning doesn't surprise me.