US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

From your other post, that line of reasoning doesn't surprise me.

Dude, I'm sensitive like you. I take everything everyone writes as a personal threat like you do!

Amazing, isn't it?

 

[cleardirect]

Why pick "min fleet change" as your fantasy DFR trigger. The fact is a new T/A might change the entire landscape. The overall sense of entitlement by certain posters here is mind numbing...as if anything the West has is sacrosanct and hell be it anyone make a change to their terrarium.

The AMR filing today tells us only change is coming. The beating of chests saying everything ELSE can change except issues dealing with the West is ludicrous.

We may all be equally or unequally unhappy with the road ahead, but lawsuits and DFR’s based on a transaction that was never completed will be a waste of time and moneys. Not that that will stop anyone.

RR

Accepting your premise that things change and not for the better. That you think nothing the west has is sacrosanct.

How do those fake C&R going to protect the west in the next merger? If the T/A is not really a contract how can C&R be enforceable? Answer they are not. The C&R are worthless and we would be stuck with straight DOH if we mediate.

So no. No mediation, no discussion. It is the Nicolau going into the next merger.

 

[Pi brat]

Cut the crap with the Hemmingway letter, please!

That letter was nothing more than a bluff. Don't you think tht if that were the case Parker would have done it immediately?

That letter was a fantasy. BS. Like this whole Republic wet dream you guys are having.

Calm down movin. What's up with you today? So testy. Afraid all you valuable work may be for naught?

 

[cleardirect]

Or the WEST is sold with it's contract to say, REPUBLIC! A SCOPE THING!

Sure. Still beating that drum are you. How long have you been predicting the west would be split off? Still here.

Just one question for you. Republic is trying to split off Frontier. What possible reason would republic dump Frontier and pick up the west?


You are quite the businessman I'm guessing.

 

[Move2CLT]

Calm down movin. What's up with you today? So testy. Afraid all you valuable work may be for naught?

Testy? Pi, when have you ever known me to be testy?

I should have know, as sensitive as you are and your propensity for running to the mods at the drop of a hat, that the word crap might make you uncomfortable.

I'm sorry.

Please don't tell on me.

 

[Move2CLT]

Sure. Still beating that drum are you. How long have you been predicting the west would be split off? Still here.

Just one question for you. Republic is trying to split off Frontier. What possible reason would republic dump Frontier and pick up the west?


You are quite the businessman I'm guessing.

MnM is merely a lemming repeating whatever is preciously posted. He makes no attempt to comprehend what he posts.

 

[prechilill]

This place is so funny sometimes. AA files Ch11 and everyone here is figuring out how it will take out the other side. Let me throw another scenario out there.

Anybody remember the Hemmingway letter? Where Al announced that the company had the right to impose the east contract on the west? Well, let's say that Doug has Scott locked in the basement working on taking over AA. He has to settle this on first, and now quickly. Kasher should rule soon and if it is a loss, or at least a small win for the east, Doug pulls out the Hemmingway letter. He says, you have a seniority list-the nic. You have a contract-the east's. That folks completes out AWA/US merger. Don't like it? Take you nearly broke, divided 6 ways from Sunday union and sue us.

One of the best posts in a long while around here. 100% agree. Parker is the problem, enemy number one and he is out to screw labor with his "aw shucks" smile stapled to his face.

 

[767jetz]

AA files BK this morning. Let the games begin.

So boys remember what you told us. Majority rules. The majority gets to decide seniority.

AA 9500
East 2700
West 1600

So 9500 against 4300.

Furloughs should get credit.

WB pilots are better than regular pilot.

Attrition is everything. (Better check AA number 8600 in the next 20 years)


I know you east guys have gone through mergers before you got this right. We have seen how you handle negotiations.

You guys going to stick to your same arguments?

Anyone know how much is in the usapa merger fund?

Now THIS is interesting.

So, how many AA and TWA pilots does AMR currently have on furlough? Not to mention possibly more as they "right size." What about flow through/ flow back guys at Eagle? Do they keep their AA DOH? Of course, the PID in any hypothetical AA/US merger means nothing right? They are just having a bad day. It is their expectation 5 or 10 years from now that really counts. So they should all go ahead of current east pilots, right? Especially the TWA MD80 captains holding up in STL. They were Wide Body captains years ago and should go in front of any US 330 pilot. Maybe USAPA can get their original "gold standard" DOH back. And what about the "profitable" east? Does AA really need PHL with AA's huge operation in NY? Does CLT make sense with MIA just down the road?

Let the hypocrisy begin!

In all reality, I think a company as big as AA going through CH11 will be a relatively short reorganization that will not get anywhere near a CH7 inevitability. So expectations in any potential merger will be far different than HP/US. But I do think the feeding frenzy will start, with east pilots trying to spin it in any way they can to position themselves ahead of as many AA pilots as possible. Watch how fast they throw the AA furloughees under the bus. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they cut their own furloughees loose and accept a Nic contract to protect the top of their list and make a merger possible. Just go back and bring out the battles fought here during UA's bankruptcy. There will be doom and gloom predictions for "Big Bad AA" who will be forced to emerge through private equity and not normal debt due to a predicted lack of exit financing. (The same prediction that turned out to be false for UA.)

Here's a familiar quote you should all get used to again: "See you in ... wait for it... ARBITRATION."

Anyone want some popcorn?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Now THIS is interesting.

So, how many AA and TWA pilots does AMR currently have on furlough? Not to mention possibly more as they "right size." What about flow through/ flow back guys at Eagle? Do they keep their AA DOH? Of course, the PID in any hypothetical AA/US merger means nothing right? They are just having a bad day. It is their expectation 5 or 10 years from now that really counts. So they should all go ahead of current east pilots, right? Especially the TWA MD80 captains holding up in STL. They were Wide Body captains years ago and should go in front of any US 330 pilot. Maybe USAPA can get their original "gold standard" DOH back. And what about the "profitable" east? Does AA really need PHL with AA's huge operation in NY? Does CLT make sense with MIA just down the road?

Let the hypocrisy begin!

In all reality, I think a company as big as AA going through CH11 will be a relatively short reorganization that will not get anywhere near a CH7 inevitability. So expectations in any potential merger will be far different than HP/US. But I do think the feeding frenzy will start, with east pilots trying to spin it in any way they can to position themselves ahead of as many AA pilots as possible. Watch how fast they throw the AA furloughees under the bus. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they cut their own furloughees loose and accept a Nic contract to protect the top of their list and make a merger possible. Just go back and bring out the battles fought here during UA's bankruptcy. There will be doom and gloom predictions for "Big Bad AA" who will be forced to emerge through private equity and not normal debt due to a predicted lack of exit financing. (The same prediction that turned out to be false for UA.)

Here's a familiar quote you should all get used to again: "See you in ... wait for it... ARBITRATION."

Anyone want some popcorn?

Well you will be surprised count on it!

 

[Hate2fly]

Now THIS is interesting.

So, how many AA and TWA pilots does AMR currently have on furlough? Not to mention possibly more as they "right size." What about flow through/ flow back guys at Eagle? Do they keep their AA DOH? Of course, the PID in any hypothetical AA/US merger means nothing right? They are just having a bad day. It is their expectation 5 or 10 years from now that really counts. So they should all go ahead of current east pilots, right? Especially the TWA MD80 captains holding up in STL. They were Wide Body captains years ago and should go in front of any US 330 pilot. Maybe USAPA can get their original "gold standard" DOH back. And what about the "profitable" east? Does AA really need PHL with AA's huge operation in NY? Does CLT make sense with MIA just down the road?

Let the hypocrisy begin!

In all reality, I think a company as big as AA going through CH11 will be a relatively short reorganization that will not get anywhere near a CH7 inevitability. So expectations in any potential merger will be far different than HP/US. But I do think the feeding frenzy will start, with east pilots trying to spin it in any way they can to position themselves ahead of as many AA pilots as possible. Watch how fast they throw the AA furloughees under the bus. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they cut their own furloughees loose and accept a Nic contract to protect the top of their list and make a merger possible. Just go back and bring out the battles fought here during UA's bankruptcy. There will be doom and gloom predictions for "Big Bad AA" who will be forced to emerge through private equity and not normal debt due to a predicted lack of exit financing. (The same prediction that turned out to be false for UA.)

Here's a familiar quote you should all get used to again: "See you in ... wait for it... ARBITRATION."

Anyone want some popcorn?

jets,

AA has 229 MD80's. Just remember back to your UAL BK and the airplanes that UAL parked. I would imagine those 229 80's will end up out in the desert. It will be very ugly for the AA employees. The AA group is not as productive as the rest of the industry. I am sure they will be raising the monthly cap. Not a good situation.

Hate

 

[prechilill]

jets,

AA has 229 MD80's. Just remember back to your UAL BK and the airplanes that UAL parked. I would imagine those 229 80's will end up out in the desert. It will be very ugly for the AA employees. The AA group is not as productive as the rest of the industry. I am sure they will be raising the monthly cap. Not a good situation.

Hate

No worries for them, USAPA has DOH in it's bylaws and the youngest pilots at AMR are in their ealry forties...
You guys are gracious to let AMR furloughed pilots pile on top of your active pilots. But that's what the gold standard is all about, right? 😀

 

[767jetz]

jets,

AA has 229 MD80's. Just remember back to your UAL BK and the airplanes that UAL parked. I would imagine those 229 80's will end up out in the desert. It will be very ugly for the AA employees. The AA group is not as productive as the rest of the industry. I am sure they will be raising the monthly cap. Not a good situation.

Hate

I completely agree with that. I would add that some of the MD80's will be replaced hull for hull with newer aircraft. But the net effect will be a large reduction. It is inevitable. Here is my initial prediction from another thread:

I predict AA will emerge much like UA did... Intact, but smaller with no pensions. They have too many assets and too wide a reach for investment to not be forthcoming. Unfortunately there will be significant pain for all. Hopefully with this administration the employees will take less of a hit and the creditors more. (Like GM/Chrysler and the auto workers.) I also think they will find sufficient exit financing and avoid selling their soul to private equity investors. It will probably take 1.5 to 2 years due to the new BK laws. (Not the 3 or so that UA took) A merger will only happen if Doug makes a run for it, or if AA decides it is a strategic advantage to absorb a competitor and make the post BK airline world a little smaller. There are many who believe that there should be one more round of consolidation to support a healthy US Airline industry. One thing is certain. AA will shrink and there will be upward pressure on fares due to supply and demand that will help all airlines stay profitable, even AA when its all said and done.

 

[cleardirect]

Now THIS is interesting.

So, how many AA and TWA pilots does AMR currently have on furlough? Not to mention possibly more as they "right size." What about flow through/ flow back guys at Eagle? Do they keep their AA DOH? Of course, the PID in any hypothetical AA/US merger means nothing right? They are just having a bad day. It is their expectation 5 or 10 years from now that really counts. So they should all go ahead of current east pilots, right? Especially the TWA MD80 captains holding up in STL. They were Wide Body captains years ago and should go in front of any US 330 pilot. Maybe USAPA can get their original "gold standard" DOH back. And what about the "profitable" east? Does AA really need PHL with AA's huge operation in NY? Does CLT make sense with MIA just down the road?

Let the hypocrisy begin!

In all reality, I think a company as big as AA going through CH11 will be a relatively short reorganization that will not get anywhere near a CH7 inevitability. So expectations in any potential merger will be far different than HP/US. But I do think the feeding frenzy will start, with east pilots trying to spin it in any way they can to position themselves ahead of as many AA pilots as possible. Watch how fast they throw the AA furloughees under the bus. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if they cut their own furloughees loose and accept a Nic contract to protect the top of their list and make a merger possible. Just go back and bring out the battles fought here during UA's bankruptcy. There will be doom and gloom predictions for "Big Bad AA" who will be forced to emerge through private equity and not normal debt due to a predicted lack of exit financing. (The same prediction that turned out to be false for UA.)

Here's a familiar quote you should all get used to again: "See you in ... wait for it... ARBITRATION."

Anyone want some popcorn?

I agree.

Currently AA has about 1000 on furlough. Probably be more. Will the east still demand credit for furlough? Will they accept the AA furloughs mixed in with our active pilots?????

Any bets on the first east poster to say AA deserves to go below US Airwas because AA is BK.Will we hear how finances are all important now. Yet when the east was in trouble it was not their fault and managements fault.

 

[Phoenix]

I agree.

Currently AA has about 1000 on furlough. Probably be more. Will the east still demand credit for furlough? Will they accept the AA furloughs mixed in with our active pilots?????

Any bets on the first east poster to say AA deserves to go below US Airwas because AA is BK.Will we hear how finances are all important now. Yet when the east was in trouble it was not their fault and managements fault.

Can you wait for a merger announcement to be made before you start yapping about how the merger arguments are going to be just like the West line of reasoning?

 

[nycbusdriver]

What possible reason would republic dump Frontier and pick up the west?

Because your precious PHX hub is so valuable?