US Pilots Labor Discussion

[HPearlyretiree]

I understand, since you have no real MARKETABLE SKILL OR EXPERIENCE(AWA) your feeling of inadequatecy is understandable!

Yeah, and without the airline, you would go really far with your GED and your Tourette's syndrome!

 

[Rookie Jr]

DOH is dead MM. Even USAPA knows this.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Busdriver gets it!!!!

Well, almost. Now ask yourself, why won't the company and usapa change the TA, and disregarg the Nic?

Answere, because usapa has a DFR toward the West, and without a seperate West entity, neither the company or usapa are shieled from the hybrid DFR that would immediately follow any change that would cause the slightest harm to the West.

The company likes what is going on now, so they are disinclined to renegotiate the TA. They would love to have some flexibility, but fear liability if they did decide to renegotiate when the time is opportune (like AA declaring bankruptcy, or Kasher awarding in favor of the east pilots.) IMHO, that's why they filed in Judge Silver's courtroom. They want to know if they can have that flexibility, or not. I don't blame them at all, and I don't see that their primary motivation is delay (as USAPA has suggested.) I disagreed with USAPA's challenge to the lawsuit because it merely delayed things even more; why not just let the judge rule one way or the other, or the third, and get it over with?

When calmer (than Judge Wake's) heads prevail, the west will realize that actually winning a DFR against a union is quite an uphill battle. Even if the resurrected Addington were again heard by Judge Wake (and even the same jury,) it would make little difference as the Ninth Circuit would have the final say.

Bring it on. Let's just get it over with.

 

[Rookie Jr]

DOH is dead MM. Even USAPA knows this.

Otherwise why would Cleary be begging the west to mediate?

PS: What's your plan B if things don't go your way? I have been asking this for a while and get no answers.

 

[BoeingBoy]

When calmer (than Judge Wake's) heads prevail, the west will realize that actually winning a DFR against a union is quite an uphill battle. Even if the resurrected Addington were again heard by Judge Wake (and even the same jury,) it would make little difference as the Ninth Circuit would have the final say.

Just remember that the 9th also said USAPA's seniority proposal harms the West, i.e. it's a DFR violation. So negotiate away...

Jim

 

[Rookie Jr]

The company likes what is going on now, so they are disinclined to renegotiate the TA. They would love to have some flexibility, but fear liability if they did decide to renegotiate when the time is opportune (like AA declaring bankruptcy, or Kasher awarding in favor of the east pilots.) IMHO, that's why they filed in Judge Silver's courtroom. They want to know if they can have that flexibility, or not. I don't blame them at all, and I don't see that their primary motivation is delay (as USAPA has suggested.) I disagreed with USAPA's challenge to the lawsuit because it merely delayed things even more; why not just let the judge rule one way or the other, or the third, and get it over with?

When calmer (than Judge Wake's) heads prevail, the west will realize that actually winning a DFR against a union is quite an uphill battle. Even if the resurrected Addington were again heard by Judge Wake (and even the same jury,) it would make little difference as the Ninth Circuit would have the final say.

Bring it on. Let's just get it over with.

Yep. Bring it on.
Looking forward to what happens in court today.
Let's get this over with.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Usapa inherited the Nic, when it sought to represent the two groups who arbitrated.

Good analogy: Inherited.

Yes, USAPA inherited the Nic. I like that terminology, because like any inheritance, the heir has no obligation to accept it. The rights of the "dead" bequeather do not negate the rights of the inheritor to say, "No thanks, I don't want it."

 

[Reed Richards]

Looking forward to what happens in court today.

Why don't you head on down to the courthouse and come back here with a full report.

I predict you will be shocked that absolutely nothing will happen today.

Better yet, I will meet you there. I will be wearing a red dress and my wheel cap.

RR

 

[Black Swan]

OK! The west decided that we want what we agreed to. The Nicolau list. Are we done?

No so I guess we have to let a court decide. That is going to happen Dec 1. You all said you were willing to let the court decide. you all said that the ninth said you were right. Why delay the process and short circuit the court deciding by mediating? If you are right and the ninth said you won why give up now and mediate?

We decided. It is the Nicolau. End of story.

I take the 9th over a junior disgruntled pilot anytime..........

ripe.1
[8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

 

[Black Swan]

Just remember that the 9th also said USAPA's seniority proposal harms the West, i.e. it's a DFR violation. So negotiate away...

Jim

NO, this is what they really said:

8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

 

[cleardirect]

The company likes what is going on now, so they are disinclined to renegotiate the TA. They would love to have some flexibility, but fear liability if they did decide to renegotiate when the time is opportune (like AA declaring bankruptcy, or Kasher awarding in favor of the east pilots.) IMHO, that's why they filed in Judge Silver's courtroom. They want to know if they can have that flexibility, or not. I don't blame them at all, and I don't see that their primary motivation is delay (as USAPA has suggested.) I disagreed with USAPA's challenge to the lawsuit because it merely delayed things even more; why not just let the judge rule one way or the other, or the third, and get it over with?

When calmer (than Judge Wake's) heads prevail, the west will realize that actually winning a DFR against a union is quite an uphill battle. Even if the resurrected Addington were again heard by Judge Wake (and even the same jury,) it would make little difference as the Ninth Circuit would have the final say.

Bring it on. Let's just get it over with.

If the company could change the T/A they would. They need out of the min fleet and block hours. If LOA 93 is a win don't you think that company would transfer as much to the west as possible? Right there is the biggest reason. But they have not because they can't.

Try and think about this. What did the ninth say? The case is not ripe until we have a joint contract. That is when we go to court for a DFR. So the only requirement the ninth set is met. They also said that the seniority list MIGHT be one that does not work the fear the west has. We fear anything that is no the Nicolau. So if would be a DFR. Sure the ninth has the final say. At that point they agree with us on the merits.

But that is moot. Judge Silver is going to put an end to this. She is going to give us an answer very soon.

 

[Phoenix]

If the company could change the T/A they would. They need out of the min fleet and block hours. If LOA 93 is a win don't you think that company would transfer as much to the west as possible? Right there is the biggest reason. But they have not because they can't.

Try and think about this. What did the ninth say? The case is not ripe until we have a joint contract. That is when we go to court for a DFR. So the only requirement the ninth set is met. They also said that the seniority list MIGHT be one that does not work the fear the west has. We fear anything that is no the Nicolau. So if would be a DFR. Sure the ninth has the final say. At that point they agree with us on the merits.

But that is moot. Judge Silver is going to put an end to this. She is going to give us an answer very soon.

If Silver thinks she can inhibit bargaining she will just delay it until the 9th reviews and repeats that the court stays out.

 

[cleardirect]

If Silver thinks she can inhibit bargaining she will just delay it until the 9th reviews and repeats that the court stays out.

No boys it is you that is delaying bargaining.

What do you think arbitration is for? It is supposed to speed up and save money by not going to court. You guys have blown that.

If they court tells the company they have to use the Nicolau that will be it. Appeal all day long. The company will have an answer and move forward. How long will it take to appeal? Is usapa going to delay negotiations until that is done?

How long can you guys hold out without a contract? Don't forget AA in out there too.

You might want to read the latest filing. We ask the court to speed this up because of AA.

 

[nevergiveup]

If the company could change the T/A they would. They need out of the min fleet and block hours. If LOA 93 is a win don't you think that company would transfer as much to the west as possible? Right there is the biggest reason. But they have not because they can't.

Try and think about this. What did the ninth say? The case is not ripe until we have a joint contract. That is when we go to court for a DFR. So the only requirement the ninth set is met. They also said that the seniority list MIGHT be one that does not work the fear the west has. We fear anything that is no the Nicolau. So if would be a DFR. Sure the ninth has the final say. At that point they agree with us on the merits.

But that is moot. Judge Silver is going to put an end to this. She is going to give us an answer very soon.

If one loses something that has never happened, then what has he lost.........nothing.

 

[BoeingBoy]

NO, this is what they really said:

8] Plaintiffs seek to escape this conclusion by framing
their harm as the lost opportunity to have a CBA implementing
the Nicolau Award put to a ratification vote. Because
merely putting a CBA effectuating the Nicolau Award to a
ratification vote will not itself alleviate the West Pilots furloughs,
Plaintiffs have not identified a sufficiently concrete
injury.2 Additionally, USAPA’s final proposal may yet be one
that does not work the disadvantages Plaintiffs fear, even if
that proposal is not the Nicolau Award.3

Still having that reading problem....

They said that USAPA's current proposal harms west pilots, but said that USAPA may yet (as in might in the future) submit a proposal that doesn't do that harm.

Jim