US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

I'm sure this has been covered a million time and we are about to find out what the good Judge Silver thinks, but does this paragraph concern you guys, or do you zoom in on the "west pilots being harmed" part and skip the rest?

THE COURT: What would you have argued to the Ninth
10 Circuit had you been a party? You're in front of the Ninth 0229
11 Circuit now. What would you have argued that would change the
12 complexion of the case? It seems to me, as I've read the case
13 again and again, that the majority opinion was -- they were
14 adamant about taking the position, which is supported by the
15 case law, that they are to defer where there are collective 0253
16 bargaining agreement negotiations. So they were just going to
17 keep away from that no matter what. No question the Court
18 embraced the issue that there was harm to the West Pilots.
19 That was clear. Nonetheless, they were not -- still, this was
20 something that could be negotiated and they felt it would be 0220
21 negotiated and even though US Air was not present, that it
22 still could be negotiated so why is it any different?

Also, section XII B of the TA says the TA can be amended by written agreement by both parties. USAPA now represents the west, so what's the problem? I've argued before that we are not changing the TA, but the final contract. Again we will see if that is correct and if the judge thinks it's legal.

The 9th notion that there was harm to some West pilots due to furlough did not find anyone culpable.. They immediately followed that notion with the acknowledgement that the court was unble to provide any remedy and the remedy the West hoped for was speculative at best.

 

[Barrister]

Still having that reading problem....

They said that USAPA's current proposal harms west pilots, but said that USAPA may yet (as in might in the future) submit a proposal that doesn't do that harm.

Jim

You are the one with reading comprehension problems. Where has ANYONE except the West said it has to be the NIC
or better ????

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[mrbreeze]

If the TA could be rewritten, then it would have long ago.

Sorry, I disagree.....Parker has enjoyed nice profits and has been lining management's pockets for several years now....why would he be motivated to change anything. He loves the LOA93 wage level.

Now that the possible AA merger is on the horizon, he will be looking for a bigger windfall and will speed things up as much as possible, trying to get his house in order.

breeze

 

[Move2CLT]

USAPA just had its butt handed to it at the hearing.

More info inbound.

 

[fifidriver]

IMHO, the TA can be rewritten with a filter, so to speak, in place that would allow the integration to move forward, but at a slower pace to accomodate the East pilot retirements while including the NIC. This would pacify the East pilots and also the West pilots. The East just wants to retain the attrition that was brought to the table while making their exit into retirement, and the West would get their NIC, effecting future flying and their careers.

I am no genius, but I think it has merit and that a DFR case may test the idea, but it would be hard to prove that a DFR actually happened, since the rewrite is a process to move things forward.....any court will like to see it move forward.
breeze

IMHO, the idea that the NIC is unfair, in that it does not somehow accomodate the "east attrition", is flawed from the outset. The assumption that attrition on the east belongs to the east, ignores the underlying facts of the merger, and indeed the entire concept of a merger. The current iteration of US Airways is a new entity. The incorporation of the west into the new entity has diluted the unsustainable costs of the east operation, allowing the attrition on the east, instead of operational contraction, to the detriment of the west pilots. IMHO, the attrition belongs to the entire pilot group.

 

[luvn737s]

IMHO, the TA can be rewritten with a filter, so to speak, in place that would allow the integration to move forward, but at a slower pace to accomodate the East pilot retirements while including the NIC.

Slower than what?? Stopped???

You've had a clogged filter called USAPA for many years. What do you propose to offer the west to recoup the effects of the east's delay tactics?

"We'll only hold you under the waterboard for half as much time as we did before, and that's pretty generous."

Nope. The east could negotiate, but only for something far more advantageous to the west than the NIC.

 

[Move2CLT]

Sorry, I disagree.....Parker has enjoyed nice profits and has been lining management's pockets for several years now....why would he be motivated to change anything. He loves the LOA93 wage level.

Now that the possible AA merger is on the horizon, he will be looking for a bigger windfall and will speed things up as much as possible, trying to get his house in order.

breeze

I disagree with your disagree and I'll raise you.

Parker will always change if it bets him more cash, productivity, or both. Throwing away the TA would open doors for him.

And USAPA would ever pass up that leverage.

 

[JoeFL77]

Still sounds like a gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today scheme.

Seriously Breeze, I wanted you guys to get upgrades and advancement, just not at my or other West pilots expense.

The merger brought new opportunity for advancement. Just ask Coello. He got his job back, moved up rapidly, and is in a much greater position because of the merger. Now, what exactly did the merger and the east pilots BS do for Odell?

Bottom line, at this point, it will be the Nic, unmodified. Contract shennanigans to dilute industry standard seniority rights would likely get met with opposition barring their implementation, and then we don't move forward.

It gave him 20 percent of the East passengers to fly around without which he would be furloughed. Things may have looked good at the snap shot but the actual future is quite different (closing LAS).

Every time I here the West got nothing I think about the net 20 percent of the flying they got and forget about. How many Philly and Charlotte overnights did you have previosly?

 

[nycbusdriver]

So if I get hit by a truck today, and lose the 10+years of life the actuaries say I have coming I've lost nothing since that 10+ years of extra life never happened? My wife will be disappointed to hear that...

On the other hand, how much money have juries awarded plantiff's families for wrongful death, which you claim is not a loss?

Jim

Since it appears you never leave your computer, I must ask: Do you have trucks running through your house?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Since it appears you never leave your computer, I must ask: Do you have trucks running through your house?

Yeah, hit by a SimCity truck.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Agreed. Can't comment on the DFR part but it seems like a plausible idea anyway. You guys have come a long way since our mediation and arbitration..

(This is not directed at you personally, but to the west pilots, especially those here on the forum, as a group)

There's not any doubt that the west is going to pursue a DFR against USAPA. I think everyone here, east, west, pilot, non-pilot, customer, interloper, lurker, etc. sees that as a given.

Why do we still have to hear about the DFR as if it is a threat? We don't care. Your rhetoric is tiresome. We know where you stand. You know where we stand.

We've accepted that a DFR is indeed coming. Do we somehow sound worried? Does it seem somehow that your threat is affecting anything we intend to do?

Do it already...whenever your lawyer can figure out when the case is ripe, just do it. We don't care.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If the TA could be rewritten, then it would have long ago.

USAPA would have used it as leverage by giving away the west min fleet count.

It can't be rewritten.

Well now THAT would have definitely been grounds for a DFR. I think I would have contributed to that legal fund myself.

The TA hasn't been rewritten because it is to the company's advantage so far to keep in in place as is.

 

[OTTER574]

After today's hearing in Judge Silver's court room.

All I can say is...I hope the east has KY jelly and sedatives! (legal of course)

OTTER

 

[Fully Cross Utilized]

After today's hearing in Judge Silver's court room.

All I can say is...I hope the east has KY jelly and sedatives! (legal of course)

OTTER

Details please!

 

[cleardirect]

In a word the usapa case was destroyed.

The judge said mediation was a joke and waste of time. No discovery. No expert witnesses.

Expedited filings for summary judgement. This could be over by April. usapa got wait for it, SPANKED!!!!!!!!

BTW the usapa boys finally figured out that wearing uniforms in court does not impress federal judges. The new lawyers are worth something but they were still handed a pig of a case.

Poetic justice would be the judge ruling the company has to use Nicolau on the fourth anniversary of usapa. April 18 2012 has a nice ring to it. We will see if this judge has a sense of humor.