US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

In a word the usapa case was destroyed.

The judge said mediation was a joke and waste of time. No discovery. No expert witnesses.

Expedited filings for summary judgement. This could be over by April. usapa got wait for it, SPANKED!!!!!!!!

BTW the usapa boys finally figured out that wearing uniforms in court does not impress federal judges. The new lawyers are worth something but they were still handed a pig of a case.

Poetic justice would be the judge ruling the company has to use Nicolau on the fourth anniversary of usapa. April 18 2012 has a nice ring to it. We will see if this judge has a sense of humor.

It's deja vu all over again. ;-) This is just like the Addington, home runs all around. Oh well, maybe it will speed things up.

I guess we are finally going to see if the appeals court really was wrong. I just didn't know it was Judge Silver's job to do that.

I think CG was willing to go out on a limb and say that Judge Silver would rule in favor of count 1. If that happens by April, it can still appealed to SFO, right?

 

[cleardirect]

It's deja vu all over again. ;-) This is just like the Addington, home runs all around. Oh well, maybe it will speed things up.

I guess we are finally going to see if the appeals court really was wrong. I just didn't know it was Judge Silver's job to do that.

It is judge Silver's job to serve justice and bring this mess to an end Is that not what we all want?

What did the ninth get right? That the case was not ripe? This is not the Addington.

 

[Pi brat]

IMHO, the idea that the NIC is unfair, in that it does not somehow accomodate the "east attrition", is flawed from the outset. The assumption that attrition on the east belongs to the east, ignores the underlying facts of the merger, and indeed the entire concept of a merger. The current iteration of US Airways is a new entity. The incorporation of the west into the new entity has diluted the unsustainable costs of the east operation, allowing the attrition on the east, instead of operational contraction, to the detriment of the west pilots. IMHO, the attrition belongs to the entire pilot group.

Welcome, and glad you have enjoyed the circus we have provided.

I agree with the premise that the attrition is not just the east's. I think all attrition, east and west should be shared fairly. I just don't think the Nic does that. Why do you think the west deserves a bigger chunk than the would stand alone, because that is what Nic gave them.

The introduction of the east into the west and the synergies that emerged profited the west because, as out CEO has said, the west model was finished. Our higher revenues outran their lower costs when fuel skyrocketed.

Thanks for the input, it's good to have new POVs here.

 

[CallawayGolf]

It's deja vu all over again. ;-) This is just like the Addington, home runs all around. Oh well, maybe it will speed things up.

I guess we are finally going to see if the appeals court really was wrong. I just didn't know it was Judge Silver's job to do that.

The DJ is a different matter altogether. The Ninth deferred judicial intervention citing ripeness of the Addington prayer for relief. The found an easy out to claim that the federal court did not yet have the jurisdiction to adjudicate the dispute. Maybe they were right and maybe they were wrong for a variety of reasons.

The Company's prayer for relief is a very different legal matter with a very different standard for ripeness and jurisdiction. Silver knows the law and she knows how to grant the Company relief from the harm USAPA wishes to bring to them without challenging the ruling already made by the Ninth on ripeness. Other than willful ignorance of the law and the process, I'm not sure why this is so hard for the east to understand.

Boy that $eham sure is one rich and cleaver fellow. He ran up the bills with a bunch of smokescreens the east lapped up with vigor and then conveniently got relieved of his position just before the mounting legal losses started to surface. His record looks pretty good compared to what it would have looked like by this time next year had he stuck around. He got the money, kept a decent legal record, and has USAPA over a barrel with those emails that were sent to try and discredit his firm. He is unscrupulous to the core, but still one sly dog with lots of pilot money siting in his bank account.

 

[fodase]

It gave him 20 percent of the East passengers to fly around without which he would be furloughed. Things may have looked good at the snap shot but the actual future is quite different (closing LAS).

Every time I here the West got nothing I think about the net 20 percent of the flying they got and forget about. How many Philly and Charlotte overnights did you have previosly?

O'dell is furloughed and has been since 2008.

 

[Pi brat]

It is judge Silver's job to serve justice and bring this mess to an end Is that not what we all want?

Well, I do but I can't speak for everyone else. If it is a fair trial, I don't care about the rejection of USAPA's requests. I just think it has the potential to be appealed all the way to the SCOTUS before we start really getting down to a contract. What I am saying is the west's reaction is typical of what we have seen before, spanked etc.

One upside of a west win here means that damages are gone and we have a clear vision of how to negotiate the contract. It would suck to fall for a lousy contract with DOH and then have it pulled in DFR II.

Even if this gets wrapped up for your April party, the celebration would be premature. It's a long way from over, IMHO of course. AA may speed things up, who knows.

 

[Black Swan]

It is judge Silver's job to serve justice and bring this mess to an end Is that not what we all want?

What did the ninth get right? That the case was not ripe? This is not the Addington.

Oh we are severely worried. I heard it went nothing like you claim. The bottom line is Judge Silver has to respect a union, and it's internal business and right to bargain without interfering. If she doesn't? She will get EXACTLY what Wake got. You had a nice little premature adjudication on that one also. The AZ court system seems to not get certain concepts. That is fine, and that is what the 9th is for.

 

[fodase]

Well, I do but I can't speak for everyone else. If it is a fair trial, I don't care about the rejection of USAPA's requests.

That's the point, no trial is going to happen here.

 

[fifidriver]

So, for the sake of argument... since we're all just sitting here...
If the NIC were to be implemented by, judicial mandate, company insistance, popular vote, east pilot largesse (TIC), or whatever; What would be the next physical step for usapa?

 

[Rookie Jr]

So, for the sake of argument... since we're all just sitting here...
If the NIC were to be implemented by, judicial mandate, company insistance, popular vote, east pilot largesse (TIC), or whatever; What would be the next physical step for usapa?

Dissolve.

 

[Rookie Jr]

(This is not directed at you personally, but to the west pilots, especially those here on the forum, as a group)

There's not any doubt that the west is going to pursue a DFR against USAPA. I think everyone here, east, west, pilot, non-pilot, customer, interloper, lurker, etc. sees that as a given.

Why do we still have to hear about the DFR as if it is a threat? We don't care. Your rhetoric is tiresome. We know where you stand. You know where we stand.

We've accepted that a DFR is indeed coming. Do we somehow sound worried? Does it seem somehow that your threat is affecting anything we intend to do?

Do it already...whenever your lawyer can figure out when the case is ripe, just do it. We don't care.

I don't think we have to concern ourselves about another DFR. From what I heard about court today it appears the company believes it is legally obligated to use the Nic. The judge expedited the process and it doesn't look good for ucrapa.

So: what's your plan B?

 

[Beancounter]

(This is not directed at you personally, but to the west pilots, especially those here on the forum, as a group)

There's not any doubt that the west is going to pursue a DFR against USAPA. I think everyone here, east, west, pilot, non-pilot, customer, interloper, lurker, etc. sees that as a given.

Why do we still have to hear about the DFR as if it is a threat? We don't care. Your rhetoric is tiresome. We know where you stand. You know where we stand.

We've accepted that a DFR is indeed coming. Do we somehow sound worried? Does it seem somehow that your threat is affecting anything we intend to do?

Do it already...whenever your lawyer can figure out when the case is ripe, just do it. We don't care.

While you may have no hesitation to do harm to yourself, the company is not so brazen. What are you a masochist? You step in front of moving buses for fun don't you.

 

[Beancounter]

I don't think we have to concern ourselves about another DFR. From what I heard about court today it appears the company believes it is legally obligated to use the Nic. The judge expedited the process and it doesn't look good for ucrapa.

So: what's your plan B?

You're kidding right? They could have their butts handed to them on a Silver platter and they're not going to admit they were wrong or lost. Incredible arrogance and stupidity got us into this mess, multiple head bashings against a brick wall unfortunately will not fix it.

 

[exB717Flyer]

The AZ court system seems to not get certain concepts.

Interesting you should be critical of the AZ federal courts. Where's your scorn for the NC federal courts that granted the injunction against USAPA? Surely you're not denying the slowdown was real.

And what about when the NY court dismisses your idiotic status-quo suit? All these courts misunderstanding USAPA and its friendly intents. shocking.

 

[cleardirect]

Oh we are severely worried. I heard it went nothing like you claim. The bottom line is Judge Silver has to respect a union, and it's internal business and right to bargain without interfering. If she doesn't? She will get EXACTLY what Wake got. You had a nice little premature adjudication on that one also. The AZ court system seems to not get certain concepts. That is fine, and that is what the 9th is for.

You should be worried.

What is it you heard? That the judge granted mediation?
That usapa is going to get expert witnesses?
That full blown discovery will take place?
A trial will not happen until November 2012 like usapa asked?

Is that what you heard? That is what usapa asked for did they get any of those things?

The order should be out soon. We can compare what you heard to what I heard and see which account is correct. No usapa got SPANKED today.


Federal judges do not have to respect unions. They only respect the law. And in this case the law in on our side.