US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Ah, more revisionist history. The West was carrying on an illegal dues boycott and shutting down communications at the then tiny union HQ, having been asked to stop numerous times. Between the RICO suit and the NMB dues arbitration, both behaviors were stopped. I don't remember any doves flying out of our windows back then..yet now you make it sound like you were the poor oppressed children just trying to get along.

Again ironic, you make fun of pilot's weight here and call others clowns.

By the way, anyone doubting the teeth in Section 29 lately? Arbitrator Whit made it clear everyone pays and what happens if they don’t.

And the only ones now ignoring the fact we live in a “traceable” electronic age seem to be certain union Officers. Impersonating a lawyer via email is just as stupid as calling a union accident hotline with your caller id on.

3% raises compounded yearly starting in 2010 and our trickling attrition will work just fine for the next 10 years. I don't require much.

RR

If you don't require much you guys should not have asked for it all. DOH and 90% of the contract.

If all you want is trickling attrition and 3% you could have worked something out. But now that is what you are willing to settle for?

Well that is one beat soldier giving up. Any more east guys out of the fight?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Ah, more revisionist history. The West was carrying on an illegal dues boycott

Illegal, huh. Didn't the west not having any way to become members at that time have something to do with it. I recall a hasty rewrite of the membership approval process in the constitution at the time because the westies had a valid claim of no way to become members...

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

Illegal, huh. Didn't the west not having any way to become members at that time have something to do with it. I recall a hasty rewrite of the membership approval process in the constitution at the time because the westies had a valid claim of no way to become members...

Jim

Illegal. They all paid. And the convoluted logic that since no one was paying no one could be a rep was just that, convoluted. The NMB clearly understood the chicken and the egg self imposed membership question, and recognized the BPR reacted properly. Thus the requirement that dues and fees be paid retroactive to April 18, 2008. Again, this sounds like a typical West argument...poor poor us, locked out by the East.

That simply was not the case. Not participating was a strategy I will always argue that was counterproductive. Had they actually been able to get even 80% of their pilots a vote, and 3 reps early on, they could have moved elections and policy. As of now, they still cannot even get 500 to even join, making me think those 500 were more than happy to simply not pay fees for a year, with no concern for union activities.

RR

 

[cactusboy53]

the west is unwilling to take a 10 year fence.. I'm sure every east pilot would be ok with that, the reason plain and simple.
they know they hit the lottery with the NIC.

Nicky Baby! We are willing to take a fence: The fence that Nicolau placed on the FINAL & BINDING ARBITRATION. That would be the process that all three parties agreed to in the beginning. That has since passed, AND you are presently at a SIX YEAR fence (and counting). You will take what the judge and the company give you, and you will like it (apologies Ted Baxter ala Judge Smails)!!

You don't even have to be "OK with it". It will be in the form of a vote ratified contract. Keep voting it down until there is enough money in it that you choke. My guess is that the senior captains will be tired of following the lead lemming Cleary, and will turn away from the cliff for the cash. IMHO.

BTW, If the NIC is a lottery ticket then you must be the untold number of "cousins" that creep out of the woodwork asking for a handout.

 

[crazystnic]

Nicky Baby! We are willing to take a fence: The fence that Nicolau placed on the FINAL & BINDING ARBITRATION. That would be the process that all three parties agreed to in the beginning. That has since passed, AND you are presently at a SIX YEAR fence (and counting). You will take what the judge and the company give you, and you will like it (apologies Ted Baxter ala Judge Smails)!!

You don't even have to be "OK with it". It will be in the form of a vote ratified contract. Keep voting it down until there is enough money in it that you choke. My guess is that the senior captains will be tired of following the lead lemming Cleary, and will turn away from the cliff for the cash. IMHO.

BTW, If the NIC is a lottery ticket then you must be the untold number of "cousins" that creep out of the woodwork asking for a handout.

yeah I thought so,
blah blah blah.. you sound like a teenager....
I'm glad your intent on stealing our jobs and attrition...
stay in the hot sun

we will see how it turn out, but I have no love lost for you.. and I'm sure the same for us...

but if you want to run this to the end, let's keep it up....

but don't complain about how long it takes...

I hope it takes another 5 years... by that time you will be crying in your wine, looking at our upgrades...

the train is getting ready to leave the station and this is far from over.

 

[cactusboy53]

yeah I thought so,
blah blah blah.. you sound like a teenager....
I'm glad your intent on stealing our jobs and attrition...
stay in the hot sun

we will see how it turn out, but I have no love lost for you.. and I'm sure the same for us...

but if you want to run this to the end, let's keep it up....

but don't complain about how long it takes...

I hope it takes another 5 years... by that time you will be crying in your wine, looking at our upgrades...

the train is getting ready to leave the station and this is far from over.

Far from a teenager, Sonny boy. WE are not stealing ANYTHING. They are NOT "your jobs and your attrition". USAPA however is hell-bent on using my dues money to evade an agreement. Further USAPA has done nearly EVERYTHING in its power to financially cripple the PHX based pilots (think 2X FAILED RICO charges).

You are so myopic in what you think you are entitled to and attempting to take it by force of number that you have failed to see that you are the pariahs of the commercial aviation industry. Pure stinking poison.

I'll bet we see this done and a ratified contract by the end of 2012. Doug wants this too bad, and I'll bet he is willing to pay Delta wages & the AWA contract to get it (at the least).

Buck up Sonny. We are actually a really great bunch of guys & gals. We just refuse to be steamrolled by a bunch of bullies.

 

[crazystnic]

Far from a teenager, Sonny boy. WE are not stealing ANYTHING. They are NOT "your jobs and your attrition". USAPA however is hell-bent on using my dues money to evade an agreement. Further USAPA has done nearly EVERYTHING in its power to financially cripple the PHX based pilots (think 2X FAILED RICO charges).

You are so myopic in what you think you are entitled to and attempting to take it by force of number that you have failed to see that you are the pariahs of the commercial aviation industry. Pure stinking poison.

I'll bet we see this done and a ratified contract by the end of 2012. Doug wants this too bad, and I'll bet he is willing to pay Delta wages & the AWA contract to get it (at the least).

Buck up Sonny. We are actually a really great bunch of guys & gals. We just refuse to be steamrolled by a bunch of bullies.

If you can't see you are trying to tie yourself to 2/3 of the attrition then you are fooling yourself...
I'm trying to be reasonable..

you are not.

A 10 year fence from now is reasonable.

but you want the east upgrades.

 

[luvn737s]

A 10 year fence from now is reasonable.

but you want the east upgrades.

In other words, "Once I got mine, then it's reasonable".

 

[cleardirect]

You east guys I have a couple questions. You say that DOH is the "gold standard" You also think that DOH is all controlling. We have also heard a lot of complaining about your prior mergers not being DOH.

If we merge with AA are you guys going to fight to give the TWA guys back their DOH?
There are about 250 eagle guys on the list that are not at AA yet (flow thru). You going to demand that they are on or off the list? Think MDA. What say you?
Do the furloughs get full credit DOH or LOS?
If a guy has deferred recall are you going to treat him as active or furloughed? Full credit or not?

 

[crazystnic]

In other words, "Once I got mine, then it's reasonable".

Dude, I've been furloughed and back.. Not afraid to say it... I've been a 727 Captain and I've waited patiently for the left seat.. Now you want to t give it to a 2005 hire ahead of me... who is 10 years younger than me....

sorry , your trying to steal from us...

if you can't agree to a 10 year fence, your stealing...

so pile on... go ahead....

your logic makes no sense.

 

[Reed Richards]

You east guys I have a couple questions. You say that DOH is the "gold standard" You also think that DOH is all controlling. We have also heard a lot of complaining about your prior mergers not being DOH.

If we merge with AA are you guys going to fight to give the TWA guys back their DOH?
There are about 250 eagle guys on the list that are not at AA yet (flow thru). You going to demand that they are on or off the list? Think MDA. What say you?
Do the furloughs get full credit DOH or LOS?
If a guy has deferred recall are you going to treat him as active or furloughed? Full credit or not?

"You east guys." "You say." "You also think." "are you guys?" "are you going to?"

Now you are starting to get the picture. Your Freudian slippage shows you know exactly who will be negotiating a list with AMR 🙂

I have lots of good answers for all the above, and yes DOH works in every single case. Why waste them on someone who likely won't be a party..to the party.

RR

 

[prechilill]

Dude, I've been furloughed and back.. Not afraid to say it... I've been a 727 Captain and I've waited patiently for the left seat.. Now you want to t give it to a 2005 hire ahead of me... who is 10 years younger than me....

sorry , your trying to steal from us...

if you can't agree to a 10 year fence, your stealing...

so pile on... go ahead....

your logic makes no sense.

Says the angry fo... Furloughed to demanding the world. You and A320 driver must really enjoy each others company. Truth is, you owe everything you have today to America West.

 

[prechilill]

I have lots of good answers for all the above, and yes DOH works in every single case. Why waste them on someone who likely won't be a party..to the party.

RR

Hmmmm... That's quite a statement for someone in your shoes. I mean, how's that DOH campaign working out for your union? 😛

 

[Reed Richards]

Hmmmm... That's quite a statement for someone in your shoes. I mean, how's that DOH campaign working out for your union? 😛

Just so so. Only about 5 years and counting of DOH. We hope to do better.

RR

 

[cleardirect]

"You east guys." "You say." "You also think." "are you guys?" "are you going to?"

Now you are starting to get the picture. Your Freudian slippage shows you know exactly who will be negotiating a list with AMR 🙂

I have lots of good answers for all the above, and yes DOH works in every single case. Why waste them on someone who likely won't be a party..to the party.

RR

Were you under the illusion that me or any west guys thought it would not be the east negotiating a merger? usapa is not going to put a west pilot on that committee just like there are no west pilots on the NAC. But you still have a DFR responsibility. They will be negotiating with the Nicolau list so have at it. But we have also seen how your MC works so I have no doubt they will screw it up and we will end up tacked somewhere near the bottom of the AA list.

As a MIG I am party to the party. Unless I get a dues vacation.

You had better get ahold of an AA seniority list and take a look. No DOH does not work in that situation either. AA and AWA is fine. AA and AAA not so much.

So how about some of those answers? Give the TWA guys their DOH? Give the furloughed guys their DOH? Give the eagle guys their flow thru DOH?