US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Keroseneuser]

I just looked at the bid. If I am reading it correctly. (Jim help me out)

A real loss of 2 captains. Adding 44 new hires but a true increase of only 42 F/O's.

Appears to be seasonal increase of 76 F/O's and a couple 330 F/O's. Does not look like any real movement to me. So much for that attrition. Something did catch my eye. 4 terminations. What are you guys doing over there?

I agree about the 330 and 76 being for seasonal stuff. But the busses are running like crazy now. Have had several mech's say they are having a heck of a time keeping up with the maint sched on the busses since there is so little down time on them now(Overnight). Cannot speak for the 190 sched. Will ask next time I see a 190 type out there. However I cannot think of a single bus I have flown over the last month that was terminating on a RON when I got off it even late in the evening. Most were heading west on a red eye according to the equipment plan on the release.

The 44 new pilots mentioned seems to jive with what we are hearing from checkairmen about being ramped up to hire a bunch starting in JAN. Spoke with a guy a while back that are getting OE guys on busses and 737's that were coming up from the 190's. The 737 check guy said he had one that had a rough time on the round gauges. From what he said I took that to mean he was one of the newhires from 08 or later that came out of RJ's and had not seen round gauges since a 172 in primary training.

No idea on the terminations, have not heard anything about that. Maybe the 4 guys were running a brothel on the side or something! 😛

 

[BoeingBoy]

A real loss of 2 captains. Adding 44 new hires but a true increase of only 42 F/O's.

That's right, assuming no typos.

Appears to be seasonal increase of 76 F/O's and a couple 330 F/O's.

I presume the seasonal increase of TA service is driving this. The captain increases are on the 330 (5 positions) and 767I (which is TA 767/757) (2 positions). The FO increases are on the 76I (35 positions) the 330 (6 positions). The 319 (family) is the big loser (-8 captains and +2 FO). The 190 loses 1 position from each seat.

Of interest is something almost never seen - 4 terminations. Everything is so rosey on the east that there was also a resignation. Also remember that some numbers are "squishy" - not set in stone. Early retirements can change their mind up to when they actually retire, return from medical numbers can change, etc. So the number of new hires can change. Count the open positions on the bid award when it's published and that is an accurate number at that point in time.

Jim

 

[cleardirect]

I agree about the 330 and 76 being for seasonal stuff. But the busses are running like crazy now. Have had several mech's say they are having a heck of a time keeping up with the maint sched on the busses since there is so little down time on them now(Overnight). Cannot speak for the 190 sched. Will ask next time I see a 190 type out there. However I cannot think of a single bus I have flown over the last month that was terminating on a RON when I got off it even late in the evening. Most were heading west on a red eye according to the equipment plan on the release.

The 44 new pilots mentioned seems to jive with what we are hearing from checkairmen about being ramped up to hire a bunch starting in JAN. Spoke with a guy a while back that are getting OE guys on busses and 737's that were coming up from the 190's. The 737 check guy said he had one that had a rough time on the round gauges. From what he said I took that to mean he was one of the newhires from 08 or later that came out of RJ's and had not seen round gauges since a 172 in primary training.

No idea on the terminations, have not heard anything about that. Maybe the 4 guys were running a brothel on the side or something! 😛

Sounds like rumor to me on the bus. Bid shows a reduction of 8 captains and an increase of 2 F/O's. Not going to fix any problems there.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Who anticipated a scenario where NOBODY paid dues, and pilots were threatened if they did and stepped up as reps?

Who's the nitwit that didn't anticipate that no PHX reps would mean no means for any PHX pilot to become a member per the C&B/L's.

Jim

 

[Keroseneuser]

Sounds like rumor to me on the bus. Bid shows a reduction of 8 captains and an increase of 2 F/O's. Not going to fix any problems there.

Frankly I don't think they have enough busses to really add any time to them. As I said above, it has been a long time since I flew anything that was scheduled to sit for more than a couple hours. I did an overnight in an outstation where the plane was scheduled to sit for 4 hours. that is the longest I have seen recently.

That combined with the other items we have been discussing leads me to believe Tempe would love to be transition free and "Import" some more metal to the east.

How heavy is the schedule on the west planes right now? Are they loaded up like the east side is?

 

[nic4us]

What is the "lie" I am telling? Who anticipated a scenario where NOBODY paid dues, and pilots were threatened if they did and stepped up as reps?

BB is correct, the CBL had to be amended, as soon as possible. It was. The NMB recognized that as a legitimate solution to let pilots join who chose to pay. Why is that a lie?

As to your comments about Ms. Whit, go figure...an arbitration one side is not happy with. Although you have to give any arbitrator a little leeway after spending time in the room with crazy Suzi. That had to be a real scene. Did she bring her kids and toys?

The question before her was should Suzi be fired. That was put aside early as USAPA argued they were NOT trying to fire her, only determine the obligations of all pilots to pay dues and fees back to 18 Apr 08. The question was asked and answered. Would you rather have had crazy Suzi fired, because she lost? I give her credit for being the test case, I really do. She did not deserve to be fired for doing that, and was given a chance to pay up. Had she not, it was clear she was gone.

RR

"And the convoluted logic that since no one was paying no one could be a rep was just that, convoluted"


That is the lie. The arguement was exactly the opposite. Since, there was no REP, according to the usapa C&BLs there was no method for a PHX pilot to become a member.

There were PHX pilots paying dues, who could not get an answere from uspa whether they were members or not, despite the fact that they paid the dues for months. There were no PHX reps to approve PHX membership, and no dues paying PHX pilots were allowed to be members. An inconvient truth that is the exact opposite of what you posted.

 

[Reed Richards]

Who's the nitwit that didn't anticipate that no PHX reps would mean no means for any PHX pilot to become a member per the C&B/L's.

Jim

Correction...nitwitS. Next time you start a new union let me know how it goes. One of many scenarios unanticipated.

Again, the important thing here is the correction was made.

Seems ALPA could have learned a lot by watching USAPA's ability to correct problems in internal procedures. Maybe they would still be up 8M in dues had they done the same.

Not sure there is any learning curve here..not often a PIT F/O throws the largest pilot union in the free world off the property after 56 years, from his home computer with donations. Won't see that again anytime soon.

RR

 

[nic4us]

What is the "lie" I am telling? Who anticipated a scenario where NOBODY paid dues, and pilots were threatened if they did and stepped up as reps?

and another lie?

NOBODY paid dues? Ferguson claims he paid dues from day one. On this board ex717 says he advocated for membership from day one, (and I know that in fact he did) so maybe he was paying, and he was not the only West pilot advancing the opinion that West pilots should join. I also think but am not sure, that all the AOL priciples were paying dues from the get go.

Who was threatened. Answere, NOBODY.

 

[Reed Richards]

"And the convoluted logic that since no one was paying no one could be a rep was just that, convoluted"


That is the lie. The arguement was exactly the opposite. Since, there was no REP, according to the usapa C&BLs there was no method for a PHX pilot to become a member.

What part of "I agree with you" don't you get. No lie here. An unanticipated event that was corrected.

The CBL was changed as quick as possible. Quick enough to satisfy the arbitrator working under the NMB.

Read (Reed!) my entire posts concerning this over the last few hours. You are not paying attention.

RR

 

[cleardirect]

Correction...nitwitS. Next time you start a new union let me know how it goes. One of many scenarios unanticipated.

Again, the important thing here is the correction was made.

Seems ALPA could have learned a lot by watching USAPA's ability to correct problems in internal procedures. Maybe they would still be up 8M in dues had they done the same.

Not sure there is any learning curve here..not often a PIT F/O throws the largest pilot union in the free world off the property after 56 years, from his home computer with donations. Won't see that again anytime soon.

RR

How is all of that working out so far?

Improved contract or work rules?
Improved pilot unity?
Improved working relationship with the company?
Improved respect from the company or other airline pilots?

More or less in fighting among the union leadership?
More or less open and transparent communication and leadership?
More or less line pilot participation?

BTW how is that card drive coming over at DAL and UAL following in your footsteps? How many airlines have thrown the largest union off the property and later come slinging back?

 

[nic4us]

Clear,

Did you start paying dues before or after the Suzie arbitration?

 

[Res Judicata]

Correction...nitwitS. Next time you start a new union let me know how it goes. One of many scenarios unanticipated.

Let me know when your "union" actually becomes a "union" and not just an increasingly embarrassing flaccid club used to threaten the non believers. Perhaps when Randy "Identity Thief" Mowery steps down and lives happily ever after with Butch things will improve. Perhaps Cleary will finally be placed in a straight jacket...for his own protection. Maybe that's when things get better.

USAPA is a disgusting abortion. It was from the word Go. Now the rats are jumping ship faster than you can say "Audit Seham".

 

[Reed Richards]

Clear,

Did you start paying dues before or after the Suzie arbitration?

Looks like the decoder ring double swear promise is being broken. There were indeed PHX pilots paying dues behind the backs of their loyal brethren.

This is grand. And the point you are trying to make here concerning the ability of pilots to become MIGS?

Busted. You were all playing the game, and the BPR via a CBL change was smart enough to root you out..just like making the CLT reps..YOUR reps.

RR

 

[88 B.T.D.]

That's right, assuming no typos.



I presume the seasonal increase of TA service is driving this. The captain increases are on the 330 (5 positions) and 767I (which is TA 767/757) (2 positions). The FO increases are on the 76I (35 positions) the 330 (6 positions). The 319 (family) is the big loser (-8 captains and +2 FO). The 190 loses 1 position from each seat.......
Jim

Agree with what you say, but there will be 6 folks upgrading to captain because there are 8 more leaving bid than returning.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Busted. You were all playing the game

Busted? USAPA wrote the rules, some just took advantage of the rules USAPA wrote. I do the same every April 15th, don't you? Does that make me "busted" or just smart? Oh wait...you probably don't take any legal deductions, knowing that the government wants all the money it can get from you....

Jim