US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Oh yea right. I forgot about that one! I just got the check from the company the other day! Oh wait....That was almost 3 YEARS ago, and surprise...surprise...surprise.....NO $$ yet. More delay, more delay, more delay (company with the help of USAPA, no doubt). USAPA's grievance backlog beats ALPA by MILES. The good news? USAPA officers are THE HIGHEST PAID in FPL history(many of whom work AT HOME on my dime)! BTW....don't you think it would make sense to have the "union" offices in the SAME city where the airline home offices are? Just an observation.

USAPA will go down in the history of Commercial Aviation as the largest "union" failure to EVER occur all because of the greed of a larger pilot group for what was perceived as unfair (It's all ALPA's fault!!!).

Spot on.

 

[Pi brat]

Oh yea right. I forgot about that one! I just got the check from the company the other day! Oh wait....That was almost 3 YEARS ago, and surprise...surprise...surprise.....NO $$ yet. More delay, more delay, more delay (company with the help of USAPA, no doubt). USAPA's grievance backlog beats ALPA by MILES. The good news? USAPA officers are THE HIGHEST PAID in FPL history(many of whom work AT HOME on my dime)! BTW....don't you think it would make sense to have the "union" offices in the SAME city where the airline home offices are? Just an observation.

USAPA will go down in the history of Commercial Aviation as the largest "union" failure to EVER occur all because of the greed of a larger pilot group for what was perceived as unfair (It's all ALPA's fault!!!).

Now wait a minute. The last update I got said that USAPA is fighting for more money. Here it is in case you missed it:

"Transition Agreement Dispute #10

On Tuesday, September 13, USAPA and US Airways met with Arbitrator Bloch in Washington, D.C., for the continuation of remedy hearings for TA #10, the Company's failure to fly the minimum agreed to block hours per day. Nearly, two years ago Arbitrator Bloch ruled that the Company had violated the terms of the Transition Agreement when they failed to fly a minimum of 9.87 hours per day for each aircraft operating in the West System and 8.79 hours per day for each aircraft operating in the East System.

The Arbitrator remanded the determination for the calculation of a remedy to the parties. After several meetings between the Union and the Company, the parties were approximately three quarters of a million dollars apart. Therefore, USAPA requested additional hearing days from Arbitrator Bloch so that the System Board could resolve the differences in not only the amount of monies owed individual pilots, but also the distribution of block hours.

On Tuesday of last week, the Union presented our rebuttal argument to the Company's position as they testified in April. Company witness, Dr. Darin Lee, testified in May that the Company's position on remedy was "nearly perfect." However, after hearing USAPA's rebuttal to the Company's arguments, Mr. Lee increased the "perfect" remedy by approximately $250,000.

The System Board members for USAPA, John Brookman and Paul Di'Orio, and the Company Board members, Paul Jones and Al Hemenway, along with Arbitrator Bloch, agreed to hold an Executive Session in D.C., on November 16 in order to discuss and develop the appropriate remedy.

For information concerning the previous arbitration hearings concerning the remedy due pilots under this Award, please refer to Grievance Updates dated May 13, 2011 and June 8, 2011."

Yes sports fans, that's the same Dr. Lee that you loved int CLT! Should I call the committee and tell them to stop fighting for more money?

 

[Keroseneuser]

Oh yea right. I forgot about that one! I just got the check from the company the other day! Oh wait....That was almost 3 YEARS ago, and surprise...surprise...surprise.....NO $$ yet. More delay, more delay, more delay (company with the help of USAPA, no doubt). USAPA's grievance backlog beats ALPA by MILES. The good news? USAPA officers are THE HIGHEST PAID in FPL history(many of whom work AT HOME on my dime)! BTW....don't you think it would make sense to have the "union" offices in the SAME city where the airline home offices are? Just an observation.

USAPA will go down in the history of Commercial Aviation as the largest "union" failure to EVER occur all because of the greed of a larger pilot group for what was perceived as unfair (It's all ALPA's fault!!!).

You are kidding right? It takes forever for this penny pinching mgmt. to pay you what they owe for dead heads they bone you out of. And you expect Doug to fork over millions quickly?

 

[cactusboy53]

You are kidding right? It takes forever for this penny pinching mgmt. to pay you what they owe for dead heads they bone you out of. And you expect Doug to fork over millions quickly?

Uhm....I have some sad news for you, bub. When AWA was represented by ALPA, our ALPA volunteers were pretty successful in getting many grievances taken care of in short order (generally speaking). Of course there was a short line of them that were swallowed up during contract negotiations, but let's face it......USAPA is trying to give away the stinking FARM in the NAC process now (all in the chase to DOH heaven).

The Commercial Aviation profession is watching USAPA and the USAPAian faithful as they attempt to DESTROY this profession in the quest to evade a final and binding arbitration. DAL is working on a SECOND post merger contract (and they merged AFTER we did!!).

USAPA = What's in your wallet (no really, what's in it because we need it to pay for this folley!)??

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

If they were going to be fired they would have been long ago.

Two three- inch company binders of info pertaining to USAPAs allegation and only 6 pages pertain to our three pilots.

It's all just a long, paid, holiday-filled vacation

I don't think you three have the marbles to do this, by yourselves. You needed someone at the top to access the info.

 

[Pi brat]

CB53, I didn't see an answer. Would you like for me to advocate a speedier, cheaper resolution to TA10? I'm heading to the CLT meeting tomorrow, might see Tracey...........

 

[USA320Pilot]

A Compass Correction Coalition Update: December 6, 2011

The Mike Cleary Issue, Innuendo, Versus Facts!

For those pilots who remember the USAPA President's message entitled "The Lee Seham Issue" of November 06, 2011, this letter from the President of the Teamsters Local 1224 will be interesting. Those who do not recall that particular message from Mike Cleary may remember it was largely a rationalization for unilaterally firing the Seham Law Firm.

Among his proffered reasons for this action was Mike’s assertion that most of Seham’s other clients were dissatisfied with the firm. We shall not dignify Cleary’s libelous claims by repeating them here, but they can be reviewed on the USAPA Website.

Cleary asserted that among those unhappy clients of Seham, Seham, Meltz and Peterson are the Teamsters Union.

Well, the following letter, written to Mike Cleary from Mr. Boyd, President of the Teamsters Local 1224 is a full refutation of Cleary’s characterization of their professional relationship and a lot more. Enjoy the read. This letter has not been edited for content.

Please direct any thoughts, or questions you might have after reading Mike’s President’s Message and this letter to Mike Cleary and the Board.


November 28,2011

Captain Michael Cleary
President
US Airlines Pilot Association
200 East Woodlawn Road - Suite 250
Charlotte, NC 28217

Dear Captain Cleary:

My name is Captain Robert Boyd former President and Chief Steward of Airline Professional Association (APA Teamster Local 1224). On background I have been employed at ABX AIR INC., former Airborne Express since 1979. During my time at Airborne I've had the opportunity to represent the Local's Pilots and Professional Flight Engineers both as a two-time elected Chief Steward for 4 years and two-time elected President of Teamsters Local 1224 for six years exclusively representing the Cockpit Crewmembers of Airborne Express.

I have recently reviewed a communication you distributed to your USAPA members making certain representations concerning Mr. Lee Seham of Seham Seham Meltz and Petersen regarding the legal services both he and this law firm provided to the Teamster membership.

As President of Teamster Local 1224, my appointed duties involved the direct hiring and oversight of the Local's staff legal counsel as well as the recruitment and hiring of outside counsel used in several specialized areas oflaw. The Local believed that the crewmembers it represented deserved a vigorous legal representation to protect their valuable careers and the Local cast the net wide to hire the best and notable in each area of law required to represent the membership.

I would request to go on record that to my direct knowledge during my tenure in office the only legal representation Mr. Seham provided for the Teamsters both at the Local or National level was for Teamster Local 1224.

Mr. Seham represented Teamster Local 1224 as outside lead counsel on cases that broached well beyond the areas of expertise and experience that could be provided by the Local's own staff attorneys. Mr. Seham represented our membership at RLA arbitrations, DOT ALJ legal hearings and before the NTSB. In every case his experience, commitment and tenacity helped the Local prevail in very difficult cases in defense of the members' valuable careers. While I am aware of Teamster criticism of Mr. Seham at the International level, that criticism was based on his representation of independent unions and not on the quality of legal services provided to Teamster members.

Given Mr. Seham's factual track record of service for Teamster members at Local 1224, I am requesting that you correct or retract your statements made to your membership concerning Mr. Sehams Legal representations of Teamster Pilot members. For the record we currently have members flying today, and providing for themselves and their families, as a direct result of Mr. Sehams involvement.

Fraternally,

B-767 Captain Robert Boyd

President (2000-2005)
Airline Professionals Association Teamster Local 1224


cc: USAPA Officers
USAPA Board Members


You can visit the Compass Correction website by clicking on this encrypted URL Link: http://goo.gl/ELwKA

 

[Phoenix]

A Compass Correction Coalition Update: December 6, 2011
....

Hey, the lawyer is good! No, the lawyer sucks! Good! Sucks! Good! Sucks! Blah, blah, blah...


Conflicting opinions about the integrity of lawyers? And this from a teamster? This is a story? :roll eyes:

Hey, where is your spokesman from over at the "Baby Milk Factory"?

 

[Move2CLT]

I don't think you three have the marbles to do this, by yourselves. You needed someone at the top to access the info.

Ya, this goes all the way to the top. We were let into the ventilation system by an insider, dropped a rope down into HR's computer, and I was lowered down spread eagle being very careful not to make a sound.

That's how we got the noc list.

 

[Pi brat]

That's how we got the noc list.

Good job. You certainly deserve the noc list and I hope you get it! 🙂

 

[nic4us]

Good job. You certainly deserve the noc list and I hope you get it! 🙂

Its a "Mission Impossible" reference.

 

[767one]

In English please, I'm definitely curious what you are thinking. Thanks!

I know you are smart enough to figure it out. I'll give you some time to research some of your cohorts posts about there not really being an investigation so I guess the company loves these pilots so much they are giving them paid vacations out of the goodness of their hearts.

Regards,


Bob

 

[Keroseneuser]

Uhm....I have some sad news for you, bub. When AWA was represented by ALPA, our ALPA volunteers were pretty successful in getting many grievances taken care of in short order (generally speaking). Of course there was a short line of them that were swallowed up during contract negotiations, but let's face it......USAPA is trying to give away the stinking FARM in the NAC process now (all in the chase to DOH heaven).

The Commercial Aviation profession is watching USAPA and the USAPAian faithful as they attempt to DESTROY this profession in the quest to evade a final and binding arbitration. DAL is working on a SECOND post merger contract (and they merged AFTER we did!!).

USAPA = What's in your wallet (no really, what's in it because we need it to pay for this folley!)??

Well, I am not a big fan of some of the things we are seeing from USAPA. But I know ALPA is not going to come around these parts anytime soon. People got tired of our union giving away scope, while also representing the pilots that were taking the flying among other things. So I like the idea of our guys for our guys and not everybody elses guys. Yeah I know, more Anti USAPA bit%^ing incoming.

So why don't you put in to help out on the greivance committee? I think they had something out a while back asking for voluenteers to help with the backlog.

You guys are complaining non stop about this and that but Move2CLT keeps ranting that Cleary's their man so he can destroy USAPA. Kinda like complaining all the time about Obama but planning on voting for him next year. Elections are coming up! Jeez lil ole USAirways managed to do a grass roots effort to remove the worlds largest pilot union from the property...you would think 1600 west pilots could get one guy voted out of office! Probably 3/4 of the east list wont even vote in the upcoming elections. USAPA is what we have, ALPA is gone and not coming back, so put all the complaining energy used on this board and go do something to help out.

Yeah I know....more of the same crap inbound over the next 20 posts. Knock yourselves out.

 

[Claxon]

A Compass Correction Coalition Update: December 6, 2011

The Mike Cleary Issue, Innuendo, Versus Facts!

For those pilots who remember the USAPA President's message entitled "The Lee Seham Issue" of November 06, 2011, this letter from the President of the Teamsters Local 1224 will be interesting. Those who do not recall that particular message from Mike Cleary may remember it was largely a rationalization for unilaterally firing the Seham Law Firm.

Among his proffered reasons for this action was Mike’s assertion that most of Seham’s other clients were dissatisfied with the firm. We shall not dignify Cleary’s libelous claims by repeating them here, but they can be reviewed on the USAPA Website.

Cleary asserted that among those unhappy clients of Seham, Seham, Meltz and Peterson are the Teamsters Union.

Well, the following letter, written to Mike Cleary from Mr. Boyd, President of the Teamsters Local 1224 is a full refutation of Cleary’s characterization of their professional relationship and a lot more. Enjoy the read. This letter has not been edited for content.

Please direct any thoughts, or questions you might have after reading Mike’s President’s Message and this letter to Mike Cleary and the Board.


Perhaps Jerome R Babbitt could comment?

November 28,2011

Captain Michael Cleary
President
US Airlines Pilot Association
200 East Woodlawn Road - Suite 250
Charlotte, NC 28217

Dear Captain Cleary:

My name is Captain Robert Boyd former President and Chief Steward of Airline Professional Association (APA Teamster Local 1224). On background I have been employed at ABX AIR INC., former Airborne Express since 1979. During my time at Airborne I've had the opportunity to represent the Local's Pilots and Professional Flight Engineers both as a two-time elected Chief Steward for 4 years and two-time elected President of Teamsters Local 1224 for six years exclusively representing the Cockpit Crewmembers of Airborne Express.

I have recently reviewed a communication you distributed to your USAPA members making certain representations concerning Mr. Lee Seham of Seham Seham Meltz and Petersen regarding the legal services both he and this law firm provided to the Teamster membership.

As President of Teamster Local 1224, my appointed duties involved the direct hiring and oversight of the Local's staff legal counsel as well as the recruitment and hiring of outside counsel used in several specialized areas oflaw. The Local believed that the crewmembers it represented deserved a vigorous legal representation to protect their valuable careers and the Local cast the net wide to hire the best and notable in each area of law required to represent the membership.

I would request to go on record that to my direct knowledge during my tenure in office the only legal representation Mr. Seham provided for the Teamsters both at the Local or National level was for Teamster Local 1224.

Mr. Seham represented Teamster Local 1224 as outside lead counsel on cases that broached well beyond the areas of expertise and experience that could be provided by the Local's own staff attorneys. Mr. Seham represented our membership at RLA arbitrations, DOT ALJ legal hearings and before the NTSB. In every case his experience, commitment and tenacity helped the Local prevail in very difficult cases in defense of the members' valuable careers. While I am aware of Teamster criticism of Mr. Seham at the International level, that criticism was based on his representation of independent unions and not on the quality of legal services provided to Teamster members.

Given Mr. Seham's factual track record of service for Teamster members at Local 1224, I am requesting that you correct or retract your statements made to your membership concerning Mr. Sehams Legal representations of Teamster Pilot members. For the record we currently have members flying today, and providing for themselves and their families, as a direct result of Mr. Sehams involvement.

Fraternally,

B-767 Captain Robert Boyd

President (2000-2005)
Airline Professionals Association Teamster Local 1224


cc: USAPA Officers
USAPA Board Members


You can visit the Compass Correction website by clicking on this encrypted URL Link: http://goo.gl/ELwKA

 

[Claxon]

J Randolph Babbitt