US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

Yeah, I am thankful, but it came with a price. $9 billion in wage cuts and the pension given away. And then have 15 yrs of seniority stripped from you.....HELL NO!

Do you have no spine or what?

breeze

Some people confuse courage with being stupid.

We lost our pension because we didn't freeze the plan when advised to do so, that was stupid.

Not knowing the difference between seniority and longevity is stupid.

 

[mrbreeze]

Some people confuse courage with being stupid.

We lost our pension because we didn't freeze the plan when advised to do so, that was stupid.

Not knowing the difference between seniority and longevity is stupid.

Show me where we were given the opportunity to "freeze" our pensions....I was hoping we would have been given that chance. I always thought that there was something indescent in the fact that the very people who were pushing to terminate our pensions was the Retirement Systems of Alabama......surely a professional outfit like that could come with an alternative instead of termination. Oh yeah, that was where they were able to cover their losses for their investment. BS!!!

How often do you actually hear of a company paying pilots for longevity and not seniority.....that is a pipe dream that has really crossed you up, trader.

breeze

 

[Pi brat]

With all that's going on inside of USAPA's WWHQ's now the PIC admits their investigation is not about recovering money for the pilots. Meanwhile, 7 East pilots are on the PIC obtaining FPL and not flying the line - more wealth transfer to a segment of the pilot group?

I doubt I will get an answer, but here goes. Have you actually seen the PIC presentation or talked to a member of the committee? I have, and I don't remember it the way you present it. I was told at the beginning that we may never see another penny, but it was the last chance to try and get some answers and maybe increase our benefits. Of all the money we have xxxxxx away, I figure this is about the best we have spent. Some weird, as of yet unexplained things happened with our pension and I'd like some answers.

Also I was at the CLT meeting today and the PIC had a presentation. I missed part of it, but I believe their total FPL loss paid this year was $85,000 for the ENTIRE committee. Maybe someone can confirm, but if true that is not paying anyone to sit at home and they have put a lot of work into this.

And lastly, how did you vote on the assessment? Oh yeah, that's right you are, or were then a non-member, thus abdicating your rights to vote. Yet you still bxxxx.

 

[luvn737s]

The Delta and United pilots were basically running ALPA at the time.

With some help from Chris Beebe VP Finance Treasurer - USAirways.

Nope, the US local pilots screwed themselves and still don't have the honesty to admit it. It's obvious that USAPA would still be on the pile of bad ideas that never saw the light of day if Nicolau had only bent to your will. There was no viable movement to oust ALPA prior to Nicolau.

Apathy lost your pensions. Apathy cements USAPA's tyranny. And ironically when the pilots actually took some action, they screwed themselves again by voting in Bradford's Abomination.

An unbroken legacy of stupidity. Aren't you proud?

 

[mrbreeze]

With some help from Chris Beebe VP Finance Treasurer - USAirways.

Nope, the US local pilots screwed themselves and still don't have the honesty to admit it. It's obvious that USAPA would still be on the pile of bad ideas that never saw the light of day if Nicolau had only bent to your will. There was no viable movement to oust ALPA prior to Nicolau.

Apathy lost your pensions. Apathy cements USAPA's tyranny. And ironically when the pilots actually took some action, they screwed themselves again by voting in Bradford's Abomination.

An unbroken legacy of stupidity. Aren't you proud?

Beebe is known around the job these days as one of the only people who could have stood up for us at National, but didn't do anything at all....just tried to take care of himself. He has been back on the line here for a few years now and I still think people are dropping trips to avoid flying with him. I actually know of one pilot here who starts asking everyone in the room if something smells like s**t when he walks into the room.....that is how highly he is thought of.

Again, it is fortunate that you guys haven't had to go through this kind of union busting that happens when the employees are the target of BK. Since you were not there, you have no idea of what happened. You just happened to catch the final act of ALPA.....the whole thing had been out of control for some time and NIC just sealed the deal. Apparently, you are not willing to even consider what I have posted tonight as having merit....that doesn't help anything.

I think that had you actually been in our situation you would have been a big proponent of USAPA...had you actually endured what we did.

The stupidity comes from you not trying to understand and learn something from our path that we have been down....just watch what happens at AA.

breeze

 

[traderjake]

Also I was at the CLT meeting today and the PIC had a presentation.

Was anything new said?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Unless the PBGC discovers a really big pile of money they previously missed, it won't make a bit of difference to the individual east pilots. So the question really is "How much do you want to spend to maybe get some answers but no more money?"

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Was anything new said?

Several hours worth.

 

[fifidriver]

Yeah, I am thankful, but it came with a price. $9 billion in wage cuts and the pension given away. And then have 15 yrs of seniority stripped from you.....HELL NO!

Do you have no spine or what?

breeze

Hello Mr. Breeze... Longtime Lurker who recently learned how to post... Thanks for all your relative moderation. I have spent years, literally, trying to empathize with your situation. I pray that the devastation of your career and your fellow pilots, does not carry over to us all. However, I cannot reconcile your perception of (15 yrs of seniority stripped away...), with the obvious reality of a new airline, (name notwithstanding), that increased its pilot group size by approximately 50%, and the concept of "relative seniority". The idea that "If you were "junior" at your original airline, you should be "junior" at the combined airline or if you were "senior at your original airline, you should be "senior" at the new airline, (LOS obviously compensated for in pay rates), IMHO is only fair. In other words, why exactly should I, or my fellow pilots, subsidize you and your fellow pilots career because of bad luck, poor management, earlier compensation etc.? I wish you the best, but I do not envision, even for a moment, capitulation to your UEL's DOH scheme.

P.S. Not all "westies" are as young as you might think. I'll bet you a beer that the first car I can remember my father driving, is older than the one that you remember. Tailwinds.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

You do and will live under DOH.

"My" generation gave up nothing.

I am not hoping the PIC comes through other than to blueprint a giant weakness in the way our pensions are administered.

Your suppositions are really the things of fantasies. Are those drugs helping you? Jerry proxy.

Your DOH fantasies haven't come true in 5 years, and the east continues to lose, lose lose. Try not to be devastated as you continue to lose.

 

[Pi brat]

Unless the PBGC discovers a really big pile of money they previously missed, it won't make a bit of difference to the individual east pilots. So the question really is "How much do you want to spend to maybe get some answers but no more money?"

Jim

About the amount I've already spent, but a better question is "Why is it of any concern or business of yours how much I spend on it?"

 

[Pi brat]

CB53,

I noticed you didn't reply to my post about TA10. I passed on your wish for a speedier, cheaper resolution for the company. ;-)

There should be some news on this soon.

 

[Reed Richards]

I doubt I will get an answer, but here goes. Have you actually seen the PIC presentation or talked to a member of the committee? I have, and I don't remember it the way you present it. I was told at the beginning that we may never see another penny, but it was the last chance to try and get some answers and maybe increase our benefits. Of all the money we have xxxxxx away, I figure this is about the best we have spent. Some weird, as of yet unexplained things happened with our pension and I'd like some answers.

Also I was at the CLT meeting today and the PIC had a presentation. I missed part of it, but I believe their total FPL loss paid this year was $85,000 for the ENTIRE committee. Maybe someone can confirm, but if true that is not paying anyone to sit at home and they have put a lot of work into this.

And lastly, how did you vote on the assessment? Oh yeah, that's right you are, or were then a non-member, thus abdicating your rights to vote. Yet you still bxxxx.

Chippy is off base on any flight pay loss issues. The pilots voted for the assessement and its associated activities, and the guys on that committee have never demonstrated any such activity (abuse.)

I happen to disagree with the investigation, voted twice against it..but happily pay every month. That is the way it works. Will be interesting to see if they come back for more funds, after an uncharacteristically long 18 month assessment which was promised to be the “last one,” or words to that effect.

And the committee has not been straight forward about some facts. They were called on saying the UAL guys got a change in PC4 benefits years ago..but never admitted their mistake in writing. A little too much drama for me. I have been told of a smoking gun by these guys since day one, and have yet to see it. The latest hoorah yesterday on UAL was misrepresented also..that was a failure internally at the PBGC on accounting..and what I read will only bring a few dollars a month more to a few, if any.

I asked the committee in open session over a year ago if ANY group or individual had ever had a benefit adjusted. They did not know.

It is a small amount of money to give, but compounded year after year it becomes real moneys..and I just don’t see any way the courts are going to open the floodgates against the PBGC on their audits…everyone would sue. Truth is all the Judge has to say is they had no accountability, and we are all done.

Of course I want to win the lottery, but my education and logic tells me it is better to put the moneys elsewhere. I feel the same about this investigation.

They have a few more months..after that I would prefer a privately funded endeavor.

RR

 

[BoeingBoy]

About the amount I've already spent, but a better question is "Why is it of any concern or business of yours how much I spend on it?"

Where did I ask how much you personally have spent or state an opinion about the wisdom of that spending? I merely asked the obvious question every eastie should be asking - how much are some answers (maybe) and closure (possibly) worth?

My jaw is getting tired of you stuffing words in my mouth...

Jim

 

[Pi brat]

Where did I ask how much you personally have spent or state an opinion about the wisdom of that spending? I merely asked the obvious question every eastie should be asking - how much are some answers (maybe) and closure (possibly) worth.

Jim

Again, why is it your place to state what every eastie should be asking. Personally I did ask myself the question, but for you it's really none of your business. You're gone. If anything positive comes of it, you win without paying. If not, what did you lose?

If you are a MIGS, then one man, one vote. If not, don't worry about it.