US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

The tragedy here is that you guys missed a chance to come on up to a higher wage scale if we had won the Kasher decision. Instead, we are all pulled back down to the AWA style contract of having the lowest pay in the industry and trying to work our way up from there.

And you think it is such a victory...all of your chest pounding! You have preached about such a better contract and higher wages if we accept the NIC and negotiate. That is BS with this company....THEY GET BIG BONUSES FOR KEEPING EMPLOYEE WAGES AT THE BOTTOM!

Are you for real??

The tragedy here is that we have wasted five years waiting for you whiners to get over it already.

 

[traderjake]

So...are you going to change your name to "Anything", traitor?

"Loyalty above all else........ except honor."..............Lieutenant Vincent Hardy from the movie Striking Distance

 

[Keroseneuser]

I am sure you would,,,then you would claim that the 80-100 pilot position required just to bring you up to West standards on vacation should be added to "your attrition".

Bottom line is real simple. No Nic..No contract.

PS. Nic already made adjustments for the attrition. All you are asking for is another bite at the apple.

Again, no. I am looking at this as "What can be voted in today december 2011" Not what can be voted in pretending it is 2005.

That is the reality of it. Current conditions right now looking at it and talking with both east and west guys (yes I have friends on the west) and from posters on here both east and west. I don't think we can get a contract voted in if they say "Nic is it" for all the reasons I mentioned in my post. At least not for anything that Tempe has offered, or appears will offer.

It is pretty easy to guess what poster on here comes from what "pilot group" I mentioned in my post. The more extreme their viewpoint the more they either gain or lose from a NIC contract. We know where they stand, the vote will be decided by the middle of the road ones from both the east and west after they look at any T/A and see how it will affect them.

In the end, probably the only way to move forward is going to have to be something that royally pisses off the two extremes, but will get the middle of the road guys to vote for.

Until then, you are probably correct.....No Contract.

 

[Move2CLT]

How stupid can you be? I am impressed with how low you are setting the bar.

breeze

This is breeze talking? The guy who had a mental breakdown on this very board? The guy that keeps putting me on ignore? The guy that voted for USAPA?


LMAO!


Figure out how stupid you can be first. Then, and only then, can you start judging others.

And please don't report me to the admins. I know that's your fallback when you get your butt handed to you.

 

[luvn737s]

For me, if Kirby or someoter equally crappy offer is all the company is going to cough up, I will wait for the retirements on LOA 93.

Suppose the company decides to pull the trigger by imposing LOA93 as the de facto joint contract company wide with NIC as the seniority integration - GAME OVER. Injunction bars any retaliation.

The mouse whose skull is crushed beneath the bar must have wondered if the cheese was worth it.

 

[luvn737s]

What say you lurkers? Are you ready for a change NOW? Are you ready for an improved contract NOW? Are you ready to participate vs. being a lemming? You decide. You can start in earnest by going to: www.reformusapa.com. Complete all of the petitions and get us moving!

But realize that those who want to reform USAPA will inherit there legal mess and possible Bankruptcy too. ALPA is an option, but a completely new union is a much better one. Don't reform USAPA, flush USAPA and start fresh.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Suppose the company decides to pull the trigger by imposing LOA93 as the de facto joint contract company wide with NIC as the seniority integration - GAME OVER. Injunction bars any retaliation.

The mouse whose skull is crushed beneath the bar must have wondered if the cheese was worth it.

Well, as far as I know, the only way to do that would be in a Bk situation. Nothing that any judge has said in any of this has even hinted at not allowing the pilot group to vote on any T/A that may come about.

Now if our illustrious govt. interveins like the state govt. did in the teacher union issue, then we will all be screwed! 😀

 

[luvn737s]

It is unfortunate that you guys can't see what the advantage would have been for East and West if we had won the Kasher dicision......but I am not surprised.

breeze

The east contingent on here said if LOA93 was a win, they would pull out of negotiations completely and let the west wither. Can you explain the advantages to that I might have missed?

 

[nic4us]

Suppose the company decides to pull the trigger by imposing LOA93 as the de facto joint contract company wide with NIC as the seniority integration - GAME OVER. Injunction bars any retaliation.

The mouse whose skull is crushed beneath the bar must have wondered if the cheese was worth it.

Yeah right!

If the company imposed LOA93 on the West, there would be no retaliation. There would be no West aircraft movement, but that would be because of safety of flight issues.

 

[luvn737s]

Well, as far as I know, the only way to do that would be in a Bk situation. Nothing that any judge has said in any of this has even hinted at not allowing the pilot group to vote on any T/A that may come about.

What makes you think that? Hemmenways letter all but said they kept that option open.

They've given USAPA plenty of chances, but they may push the button on this one and see if USAPA can hire a lawyer.

The east has permitted a weak and failing union to take them (and us by association) beyond the brink. I won't shed a tear for their choices. Perhaps they will oust Cleary and invite west pilots to lead and see where they take them.

 

[Keroseneuser]

The east contingent on here said if LOA93 was a win, they would pull out of negotiations completely and let the west wither. Can you explain the advantages to that I might have missed?

Leaving out the far east and far west contingent comments from the past. I took his comment to mean if the east had got a full restoration of pay, no matter how the contract worked out it would have to be at least equal to the restored LOA 93 pay if the company had a prayer of getting it ratified.

As it stands now tempe has nothing at all to make them want to give anything more than kirby. Worst case scenario for them right now is they keep the status quo. Unless they need the group as one for a merger, anything other than what we have now costs them money.

Doug claimed it would cost them 100 mill to bring east up to west pay. He probably would love to impose loa 93 on you guys like you suggest. that would save him another 80 mill or so.

 

[mrbreeze]

Are you for real??

The tragedy here is that we have wasted five years waiting for you whiners to get over it already.

Yeah, pal.... so that you could squeeze another 3% or so out of this company, while stealing the East retirements? Not gonna happen, even still.

 

[mrbreeze]

The east contingent on here said if LOA93 was a win, they would pull out of negotiations completely and let the west wither. Can you explain the advantages to that I might have missed?

I understand how that must have concerned you, but I think it would have put us at a higher wage level if we could have worked more toward a common goal, as opposed to us being at a lower level now and possibly being forced to work toward that common goal. Parker, once again, has won.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Perhaps they will oust Cleary and invite west pilots to lead and see where they take them.

Interesting. Ok, with the difficulty in getting a NIC voted in as we have been discussing, and the injunction that we have on us. What exactly would the west leadership do to force Tempe to give us an industry leading contract?

Tempe is happy with the pay and work rules on the east, they would probably love to run with your idea and bring you down to our contract. All they have to do to make sure they never have to pay anymore money is to never offer anything that can be voted in using a NIC list.

I am interested in what you think the west leadership could do to make the east vote in a NIC and get enough out of Doug to get the west to vote for it?

I will have to pick this up tomorrow with you though, it's late here in east land. It is refreshing to have something to chat about other than proverbial cyber finger being shot at each other! 😀

 

[mrbreeze]

Yeah right!

If the company imposed LOA93 on the West, there would be no retaliation. There would be no West aircraft movement, but that would be because of safety of flight issues.

So, are you suggesting that there would have been a West work stoppage, hypothetically, in the name of safety? If so, at this point, would you expect the East pilots to support your actions? Jeez!

No one has won this chess match but Parker and crew.....he played us against each other and you guys bought right into it.....therefore, stupidity.