US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

That's alright. If the company wins damages in a jury trial for an illegal job action, the west pilots will have to pay as well. got your ck book handy?

That's not 100% correct.

 

[Move2CLT]

So true. Isn't is funny how some on the east were saying that a Kasher win would mean the west is done. They would take the pay and the west could choke on the Nic. History proves that they gloat at any perceived victory. Now they cry that you guys are sore winners. I've been saying for a long time that a loss from Kasher will be the beginning of the end of their DOH pipe dream. Now we get to see if I was right. In the end, binding WILL be binding.

While the west had nothing to do with this loss, I congratulate you regardless for standing strong against the tyrants and letting their experiment implode.

Much appreciated.

Funny how breeze and 9-piece say a win would have helped us and most others say we would have been left to rot.

They'll figure it out one day.

 

[Phoenix]

No. The "tragedy" is that like a teenage girl, you still can't understand the fact that YOU. Created your own crappy life. I don't need a new contract, I couldn't care less. This is ALL your problem. I. Don't. Care. About. You.

Suddenly I have a picture of a young school boy who is chasing a cute young girl around, loudly proclaim how yucky she is, unable to articulate this new inexplicable attraction he has for her. Grow up.

 

[Rookie Jr]

No. Just looking at the realities of being able to get something voted in. We are a long way removed from 2005, people will vote what they feel is best for them. I simply tried to look at it from all points of view. How would the different groups of the pilots vote.

Now that you have lost the Kasher decision and should the judge rule in the DJ that the company is contracturally obligated to the NIC (most likely) anyone with common sense will realize that the end game is here and the only improvements you will see will be in a new contract. Take it or leave it. Should have happened four years ago.

I am not sure, however, that many of you have much common sense.

 

[Rookie Jr]

No actually I didnt, I just didnt gain. But from how you view your "loss" with the nic I can see how you reason that out.

My next pay check wont be less than the last.

Twisted logic aside: You gambled. You expected to win big. You expected a bigger paycheck. You're not getting one ergo you lost.
Now: you're gambling on a DOH seniority list. Doesn't look good for you, but somehow in the end you will tell yourself you've won. So sad. Your wife must be proud to have such a winner.

 

[nevergiveup]

Now that you have lost the Kasher decision and should the judge rule in the DJ that the company is contracturally obligated to the NIC (most likely) anyone with common sense will realize that the end game is here and the only improvements you will see will be in a new contract. Take it or leave it. Should have happened four years ago.

I am not sure, however, that many of you have much common sense.

alpa
Sad that had the west ALPA agreed to ten year fence, they have this airline by the balls and we would still be ALPA. Water over the dam. The good news might be that if we do a 3 way relative position with American, the senior west pilots will come out much better than they did with the NIC.

 

[Rookie Jr]

Anything that weakens USAPA's ability to steal their jobs is a victory for them.

Well said.

 

[prechilill]

Much appreciated.

Funny how breeze and 9-piece say a win would have helped us and most others say we would have been left to rot.

They'll figure it out one day.

No they won't. Why do you think they have the careers' they have had? Why do you think they lose a silly arbitration in 2011 and still blame the old CBA from 2008 for it? This is how they operate, just like the governments of Afghanistan or Mexico- terminally corrupt and inept.

 

[Rookie Jr]

Leaving out the far east and far west contingent comments from the past. I took his comment to mean if the east had got a full restoration of pay, no matter how the contract worked out it would have to be at least equal to the restored LOA 93 pay if the company had a prayer of getting it ratified.

As it stands now tempe has nothing at all to make them want to give anything more than kirby. Worst case scenario for them right now is they keep the status quo. Unless they need the group as one for a merger, anything other than what we have now costs them money.

Doug claimed it would cost them 100 mill to bring east up to west pay. He probably would love to impose loa 93 on you guys like you suggest. that would save him another 80 mill or so.

Who, might I ask, is responsible for the lack of unity that will cause us never to get better than "Kirby"? I'll place that squarely on the east's shoulders.

 

[Move2CLT]

alpa
Sad that had the west ALPA agreed to ten year fence, they have this airline by the balls and we would still be ALPA. Water over the dam. The good news might be that if we do a 3 way relative position with American, the senior west pilots will come out much better than they did with the NIC.

You're like 0 for 3 this morning.

First off, the east didn't want the fences. We offered 7 and were turned down.

And a merger would be two-way: USAPA using Nic and the APA. That's it.

Study harder.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Now that you have lost the Kasher decision and should the judge rule in the DJ that the company is contracturally obligated to the NIC (most likely) anyone with common sense will realize that the end game is here and the only improvements you will see will be in a new contract. Take it or leave it. Should have happened four years ago.

Did you bother to read the reasons that I said that in the previous posts?

But yeah, unless Tempe coughs up a lot more than they have. I will leave it. When it comes time to vote I will look at 2 main things. How much NIC will hurt my bidding power/what the offer from the company is. Where I am on the list it will take the narrowbodies paying at least what the widebodies are now. For me NIC means no widebody.

For the bottom 1/3 of the east list it will probably take f/o paying close to what Capt does now, since they will be voting 1600 guys in front of them, middle 1/3 is basically the same on a sliding scale. More money the farther down the blended list they are. For PHX Captains, i don't know what the money value is, but it will take enough to justify a possible commute to the east and possible loss of bidding power in PHX since I would expect a decent amount of ex PSA guys to bid it, and probable PHX reductions. Their most junior guy was hired no later than 86. The west F/o's will vote for NIC at current rates and a ham sandwich, etc etc. each depending on his position on the list.

Absent large money from Tempe, any joint list is a very tough sell to both east and west.

 

[nic4us]

That's alright. If the company wins damages in a jury trial for an illegal job action, the west pilots will have to pay as well. got your ck book handy?

Think again.

Illegal job actions are not germane to contract enforcement. Next LM-2 from usapa had best not include monies spent on this, cause that would also be illegal. If the company wins damages, that is all east pilots. I think there are a couple hundred challenger/objectors who will persue this issue against usapa.

So, there very well could be a further errosion of east LOA93 pay.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Who, might I ask, is responsible for the lack of unity that will cause us never to get better than "Kirby"? I'll place that squarely on the east's shoulders.

East DOH or nothing folks, west NIC or nothing folks, and mgmt. I think you could have had the pope running the union the last 4 years and not seen a single thing accomplished. Once NIC came out the two sides were polarized and no matter what said pope could have done he would not have been able to get a yes vote on anything other than huge money from Tempe, just like today.

But who did what is a moot point right now. It is irrelevant to where we are now. It is done and now it is 2011. Late 2012 or 2013 would be the earliest possible vote on a T/A I think. When its time to vote, not a single pilot on the property east or west will give a crap what things were in 2005.

 

[Rookie Jr]

That's alright. If the company wins damages in a jury trial for an illegal job action, the west pilots will have to pay as well. got your ck book handy?

Doubtful. The company was very careful to state east pilot work action at every turn. We nonmembers certainly won't have to pay.

 

[aquagreen73s]

That's alright. If the company wins damages in a jury trial for an illegal job action, the west pilots will have to pay as well. got your ck book handy?

You need to educate yourself. By law, damages are not possible when injunctive relief is sought. The only "damages" ie "money" that flow from an injunction case is in the form of sanctions for contempt. A judge can find that a union officer is in contempt, the union is in contempt or even the union member to be in contempt. The judge can sanction monetarily or....get this....incarceration. Think: Susan McDougal from Whitewater. She refused to answer questions from a judge and he locked her up for 18 months, half of which she spent in solitary.