US Pilots Labor Discussion

[crazystnic]

So what are you proposing, the top 50% fore go raises and give it all to the bottom 50%?

A320 Driver, always respect your posts on here.. Not saying that at all.. We are in a bad position... Mostly because of Team Tempe...

what i'm saying is guys with less than 5 years left, I really hope they don't push for us to accept a NIC so they can get a small raise for the short time left. Many of us have been here for 20+ years and are at 85 an hour... We have 15-17 years left...
The NIC will crush us...

what I'm saying on a fairness basis the E190 FO's and our group 2 FO's are the ones that need a raise the most...

85 an hour for 20 years....... think about it ......

they guy sitting next to you, the one doing basically the same job, the one getting up at 5AM just like you takes home 85K per year...

plus giving the top 517 to the EAST means nothing.. those 517 will be gone anyway in 5 years or less...

take care.

 

[A320 Driver]

After reading your post I would agree "hilarious" is the wrong word. How does Brookman even go to work after these kinds of revelations? Don't you guys scorn him? The dude is an idiot and his testimony single handedly punched your arbitration case.

To many he is a hero and enjoys quite the cult following. I've seen it in the crew room.

 

[Boeing Driver]

4. The fact that we would have to hire another 80-100 just to bring east up to West vacation means another 80-100 upgrades, something Kero always seems to miss in his "but the West only has 400 retirements" BS.

And there it is on full display - the AWA scumbag stealing jobs attitude.

Those jobs required to "bring the East up to" the West vacation level were originally taken from East pilots when their vacation was decimated using the AWA contract as the target. Under NIC they will all be transferred to AWA lowlifes.

The best part is these lowlifes have absolutely totally convinced themselves that this is their right. They think that 3400 East pilots are all just out in left field.

You have got to love it...

Boeing Driver

 

[prechilill]

To many he is a hero and enjoys quite the cult following. I've seen it in the crew room.

And that's the problem, it's not ALPA, it's not the west, it's the cult you have on the east. When you guys decide to get your problem controlled is when this pilot group can move forward. Almost seven years post merger I have a clear picture of what you guys are made of collectively, thanks for the additional insight.

 

[A320 Driver]

A320 Driver, always respect your posts on here.. Not saying that at all.. We are in a bad position... Mostly because of Team Tempe...

what i'm saying is guys with less than 5 years left, I really hope they don't push for us to accept a NIC so they can get a small raise for the short time left. Many of us have been here for 20+ years and are at 85 an hour... We have 15-17 years left...
The NIC will crush us...

what I'm saying on a fairness basis the E190 FO's and our group 2 FO's are the ones that need a raise the most...

85 an hour for 20 years....... think about it ......

they guy sitting next to you, the one doing basically the same job, the one getting up at 5AM just like you takes home 85K per year...

plus giving the top 517 to the EAST means nothing.. those 517 will be gone anyway in 5 years or less...

take care.

I understand what you are saying. What I am seeing more and more are people reevaluating their position. I think this is happening for three reasons. First, the ungodly expense of defending our position. Two, the personal loss in wages and work rules and our loss of any meaningful leverage. And last, the amount of time this is all taking. For many, the time is working to their advantage in the form of upgrades etc. However, the age 60 rule change, while beneficial for some, was a nail in the coffin to others and buried them in a position on the seniority list that they cannot recover from before retirement.

IMO, USAPA is kind of a boat without a motor at this point. It's just floating along completely at the whim of the winds and currents. The company on the other hand is putting up impressive performance numbers netting the management some nice bonuses at our expense. All that being said, If I was king for a day, I don't think I could come up with many ideas on how to fix this. What I am hoping for right now is a ruling by Judge Silver that will declare the ignoring of the NIC legal or illegal. Once that is done, we will all have a better idea where we stand in our particular circumstances.

I am in the last camp I described in the first paragraph. Too much time has gone by and it has cost us any chance of being even remotely cohesive as a pilot group. The damage to both sides is a little more apparent with each passing day.

Just some thoughts.

Driver...

 

[luvn737s]

I would hope so but I don't think that wil happen in the 1 yr 5 days I have left. The only game changer will be if the company decides they need a joint contract for the next transaction and more than likely they will find a way out of that legal or more than likely not legal. It would appear to me that the copamy will try to put things in the contract to make it concessionary for at least one side making it difficult to get a yes vote. In addition we still have the DJ hanging over our heads and unless one side or the other totally capitulates I don't see that happening my guess is if we all kissed and make up we would still be looking at 3 to 4 years just to get a concessionary contract unless the copany dedides that they need it.


Bob

So should USAPA hold us all hostage by either not negotiating in good faith (thereby circumventing the Nic) or not putting out a T/A for a vote if it gold plated? Why not allow the pilots to pass or reject a T/A based on their criteria?

Don't they call the behavior of hostages who begin to sympathisize with the hostage takers (and feel they are protecting them from themselves and a damaging vote) Stockholm Syndrome?

 

[A320 Driver]

And that's the problem, it's not ALPA, it's not the west, it's the cult you have on the east. When you guys decide to get your problem controlled is when this pilot group can move forward. Almost seven years post merger I have a clear picture of what you guys are made of collectively, thanks for the additional insight.

On the contrary. When the recall effort was underway to remove Cleary, where was the West pilot group? I challenged several of you on this and was told that it was your way of punishing USAPA and the East pilot group by keeping them tied to questionable leadership. Do you not know that with your help the whole leadership structure could have been replaced? But your group, the mini union which is AOL, sat on the sidelines hoping something bad would happen. Well, it did.

Driver...

 

[crazystnic]

And there it is on full display - the AWA scumbag stealing jobs attitude.

Those jobs required to "bring the East up to" the West vacation level were originally taken from East pilots when their vacation was decimated using the AWA contract as the target. Under NIC they will all be transferred to AWA lowlifes.

The best part is these lowlifes have absolutely totally convinced themselves that this is their right. They think that 3400 East pilots are all just out in left field.

You have got to love it...

Boeing Driver

SPOT ON

 

[700UW]

And there it is on full display - the AWA scumbag stealing jobs attitude.

Those jobs required to "bring the East up to" the West vacation level were originally taken from East pilots when their vacation was decimated using the AWA contract as the target. Under NIC they will all be transferred to AWA lowlifes.

The best part is these lowlifes have absolutely totally convinced themselves that this is their right. They think that 3400 East pilots are all just out in left field.

You have got to love it...

Boeing Driver

Taken?

Look in the mirror, and look at your fellow pilots, you never met a concession you didnt like, the pilots since 1992 were always the first work group to take concessions, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Then you agreed to an arbitration process, you were warned your position would not work and you stuck to it and lost in arbitration, but I guess its easier to blame everyone else instead of accepting the reality of what happened.

 

[Move2CLT]

Taken?

Look in the mirror, and look at your fellow pilots, you never met a concession you didnt like, the pilots since 1992 were always the first work group to take concessions, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Then you agreed to an arbitration process, you were warned your position would not work and you stuck to it and lost in arbitration, but I guess its easier to blame everyone else instead of accepting the reality of what happened.

SPOT ON

 

[Move2CLT]

A320 Driver, always respect your posts on here.. Not saying that at all.. We are in a bad position... Mostly because of Team Tempe...

what i'm saying is guys with less than 5 years left, I really hope they don't push for us to accept a NIC so they can get a small raise for the short time left. Many of us have been here for 20+ years and are at 85 an hour... We have 15-17 years left...
The NIC will crush us...

what I'm saying on a fairness basis the E190 FO's and our group 2 FO's are the ones that need a raise the most...

85 an hour for 20 years....... think about it ......

they guy sitting next to you, the one doing basically the same job, the one getting up at 5AM just like you takes home 85K per year...

plus giving the top 517 to the EAST means nothing.. those 517 will be gone anyway in 5 years or less...

take care.

Excellent. The fear the lower end of the seniority list has of the upper end has surfaced right on time.

As the end game nears, history begins to show itself again.

The senior bloc along with the reserve bloc looking for more money will eventually combine with the west to put a new contract with the Nic onto this property.

Crazy sees this coming. Nice job keeping up boo boo!

 

[A320 Driver]

Taken?

Look in the mirror, and look at your fellow pilots, you never met a concession you didnt like, the pilots since 1992 were always the first work group to take concessions, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Then you agreed to an arbitration process, you were warned your position would not work and you stuck to it and lost in arbitration, but I guess its easier to blame everyone else instead of accepting the reality of what happened.

True, we were typically the first ones to step up to the plate. We were the highest compensated group and that is the way it should be. We did it without thanks and without alcolades even from those who were spared cuts during those times. Had we NOT taken those cuts, how much deeper into YOUR pockets would the company have tried to reach. But, that's OK. We are used to being called names and unappreciated by the other employee groups.

Driver...

 

[Move2CLT]

unfortunately there is no chance of a 30 % straight up raise.

Failed USAPA leadership, injunction, inexperienced NC, deficit spending, BPR infighting


I do believe you're correct?

 

[Move2CLT]

True, we were typically the first ones to step up to the plate. We were the highest compensated group and that is the way it should be. We did it without thanks and without alcolades even from those who were spared cuts during those times. Had we NOT taken those cuts, how much deeper into YOUR pockets would the company have tried to reach. But, that's OK. We are used to being called names and unappreciated by the other employee groups.

Driver...

I'm having feelings for you Driver. :unsure:

I don't understand. What's happening to me?

 

[Move2CLT]

The real irony is that Brookman is one of the three that held the MEC hostage on the company's proposal that ultimately caused us to be saddled with LOA93. THEN, he turned around and blamed it on the pilot group because we had no guts when it came to the vote. ALL the advisors warned them that it got worse from there (the company's proposal). Sound familiar?? It was sickening to sit there and watch that MEC meeting get highjacked. But it wasn't the first, or the last time.

"Hilarious" wouldn't be my first choice of descriptions. Tragic is more like it. I've been watching this self defeating BS since 1989. ALPA, USAPA, IBT...put any brand on it you like...still the same BS.

Driver...

STOP IT!!!!!!

You're making too much sense!

You're Piedmont, aren't you?