US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

It is ironic that those who stop their ears and only hear "NOT RIPE!!!" don't even have the stomach to see that the 9th made it clear under what condition it will be ripe..... only after notations are complete and a contract is ratified.

You need to put a smiley after that since you're surely joking. There may be a few that don't understand that a DFR suit against USAPA for not using the Nic won't be ripe until there's a ratified contract that doesn't use Nic, but it's a very small number of people. Far less than the number who believe that the 9th ruled that USAPA doesn't have to use the Nic.

it is not about ripeness now, it is about bargaining. If the courts decide to continue to judicially intervene during bargaining, when the 9th wouldn't even venture there, then they will only multiply the many lawyers who will have more extensions to their already long and prosperous jobs.

It's now even narrower than bargaining. The question now is only about the company's legal liability once a DFR is ripe - is the TA language concerning seniority integration binding on the company or can the company negotiate a different seniority integration without incurring legal liability.

Also, it's not that the 9th "wouldn't go there" with "there" being bargaining. First, the company wasn't a party to the Addington and it's appeal to the 9th so there was no question about the company's legal liability for the 9th to answer. Second, once the 9th decided to rule that Addington wasn't ripe for adjudication there was no need for them to go further - they didn't go there, not wouldn't. They could have said that if the Addington were refiled after contract ratification with the same fact basis, USAPA would then be guilty of a DFR. They declined to say that in those words, but in the dicta they did give some hints on how they'd rule...

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

This one I will leave to you Westie experts. Interesting rumor today from two different (and probably equally unreliable) sources.

Company is currently in talks with the FAA to possibly revive an independent AWA operating certificate.

Don’t even know if that is possible, nor what it portends. Can the knot be undone? I say 7 years and no wedding night says “yes.” Uncharted territory.

Even a strange rumor like this deserves more attention than the pathetic back and forth here lately over dug up posts from years ago.

RR

 

[USA320Pilot]

Who was the LOA 93 Notetaker?

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Update for December 17, 2011

Quick Fact #213: Was USAPA Grievance Committee Chairman Tracy Parrella the person charged with taking the notes during the Transformation Plan, LOA 93 discussions?

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[BoeingBoy]

I have it on pretty good authority that there were notes but TP didn't use them because she didn't see them as favorable for USAPA's position...

Jim

 

[prechilill]

Reed, good rumor- thanks for sharing. Many of us west guys really enjoy your predictions/ stories. Just one question, U was twice bankrupt with the stand alone east operation, so if the west goes to Alaska or Unical I guess the east ops will go bankrupt a third (and probably final) time. Wow! Now that is sad. Anyhow, happy holidays- I hope St. nic I'd good to you for once!

 

[BoeingBoy]

I somehow missed your post RR, and I agree it's interesting. My question upon hearing that rumor would be "Why?" There is only one thing that having another ops cert would allow that the company can't do now that I can think - spin off part of the airline to an entity that doesn't already have an ops certificate. Well, I guess another wholly-owned is another possibility but unless the HP certificate already includes RJ's it wouldn't help much (and it well might since HP at one time flew RJ's as part of mainline I think).

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

Reed, good rumor- thanks for sharing. Many of us west guys really enjoy your predictions/ stories. Just one question, U was twice bankrupt with the stand alone east operation, so if the west goes to Alaska or Unical I guess the east ops will go bankrupt a third (and probably final) time. Wow! Now that is sad. Anyhow, happy holidays- I hope St. nic I'd good to you for once!

Chill, good rumor is all it was. At least something slightly fresh.,or less stale..whatever. The AMR BK brings uncertainty to us all, both good and bad. The operation as a whole at all 4 hubs is currently holding its own, in fact combined is reasonably successful. We owe that to both sides of the Mississippi. Neither of us would be here, employed, to carp without the non merger in 05’.

Everyone always assumes a spinoff of PHX. Why not one of the East hubs? My answer is stronger scope and change of control in the East contract says "no"..but that does not make it "so."

3rd BK is always a possibility, though with our track record not a probability (baring a force majeure incident.) Don't see our Management getting AMR type treatment in the courts ("What..you want a third try at getting your act together?")

St. Nic could care less about me..but usually treats my little ones pretty well.

RR

 

[fifidriver]

Guess you don't know. I don't read the boards all day long like some do. I'd be grateful for an answer from someone.

Are you for real? You sound like my 11 yr old kid. Listen to what the man said to you. Are you so used to someone just talking sh** to you that you cannot lend any credence to what someone says? Give the man the respect that the time that he took to attempt to educate you was worth. Look it up yourself, read it, try to discern what it really means, not what your union propagandists tell you that it means. What does it really mean to the people that matter. No wonder you people are in the position that you find yourselves. It was called reading comprehension when I was in grade school. I don't think that they test for that anymore. Unbelievable!

 

[fifidriver]

Maybe.....but you are just pissing him off.

Besides, for every poster, there are many more lurkers. You think an American pilot visiting this thread has read all the thousands of pages of transcripts and post from the last 6 years?

He was just being obtuse. He's been here long enough!

 

[fifidriver]

Okay Move, since you love comparing the East to lemmings, just a tidbit of info for you...Lemmings don't follow each other over cliffs to their deaths. It's a myth perpetrated by Disney in their Academy Award winning "documentary" White Wilderness, where they flew lemmings in from their natural habitat and launched them over a cliff into a river using a turntable.
They may over populate and as a result die during migration by attempting to swim across large bodies of water or by falling off a cliff but they do not commit mass suicide.

Kind of makes you a lemming for jumping on that bandwagon doesn't it? 😉

While we all appreciate the comic relief and the "tidbit of info", it doesn't change the reality of the east situation. Here's a tidbit; It's a commonly used literary device called a metaphor.

 

[prechilill]

St. Nic could care less about me..but usually treats my little ones pretty well.

RR

Good to hear! Hope you will be home with them like our newly- resigned NAC members are this year. Maybe 2012 will be our year?

 

[Move2CLT]

This one I will leave to you Westie experts. Interesting rumor today from two different (and probably equally unreliable) sources.

Company is currently in talks with the FAA to possibly revive an independent AWA operating certificate.

Don’t even know if that is possible, nor what it portends. Can the knot be undone? I say 7 years and no wedding night says “yes.” Uncharted territory.

Even a strange rumor like this deserves more attention than the pathetic back and forth here lately over dug up posts from years ago.

RR

Consider that fairy tale at the same level as the west getting sold off to Republic.

Its wishful thinking on the part of the east. Desperate times lead to desperate stories.

Not happening.

And use a bit of logic. The airline is making money right now so why would they tear it apart? Come on now.

 

[fifidriver]

Consider that fairy tale at the same level as the west getting sold off to Republic.

Its wishful thinking on the part of the east. Desperate times lead to desperate stories.

Not happening.

And use a bit of logic. The airline is making money right now so why would they tear it apart? Come on now.

Exactly. As long as the east is willing (it's a choice), to work under LOA93, why would they? They are profitable solely because of the industry lagging wages that USAPA is willing to work for.

 

[Move2CLT]

I have it on pretty good authority that there were notes but TP didn't use them because she didn't see them as favorable for USAPA's position...

Jim

How many negotiators do you know that are unable to produce their notes? I agree with you in that they were conveniently misplaced for the hearing.

 

[Reed Richards]

Consider that fairy tale at the same level as the west getting sold off to Republic.

Its wishful thinking on the part of the east. Desperate times lead to desperate stories.

Not happening.

And use a bit of logic. The airline is making money right now so why would they tear it apart? Come on now.

Move, do you have a higher rez version of your avatar I can cut and paste?

RR