US Pilots Labor Discussion

[prechilill]

I ask if him if attorney Jackson was still company house council to which he responded yes. I said what did he say about this? Well without going too far "we have NO INTENTION OF USING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE NIC UNLESS THE COURT TELL US WE HAVE TO"!! I said ok Doug I hear you loud and clear on that and that's my thought as well.

AWA320

AWA320, Seham and Bradford's journey is reaching the dead end we all (and I mean the rest of the piloting profession outside of the insular east group) knew was coming.
Enjoy your pay rates boys! You'll have them for a while longer.

 

[nic4us]

And if he does not what will the screams be from the west this time?

Judge Silver is a she.

If she finds usapa's rule 11 motion to have merit, and awards usapa the requested legal fees, then AOL will pay them. Conversely, if she awards Polsinelli their requested fees in the counter complaint, usapa will pay them.

Tough concept to grasp? Judge rules, participants follow ruling.

Meanwhile, a case is being built that clearly shows usapa using the legal system to intentionally delay combined operations and a Nic inclusive joint contract and therefore harm the West pilot class.

Lets see, usapa has filed what probably amounts to a couple dozen motions that have caused delay in the legal proceedings, file another one seeking fees (we all know your only hope is delay and outspend), and yet the BPR has absolutely no problem with continuing this course as long as it inficts harm to the West and forces seperate ops (i.e. no joint contract).

I think I might have to rethink my stance. DFRII is a real possibility, and the smoking gun is Seham's court behavior, approved of by the BPR.

No Nic=No Contract=Intentional usapa failure of DFR.

 

[prechilill]

What a bunch of unbelievable low-lifes; once again - irrefutable evidence that AWA (America's Worst Airline) was the ONLY airline where they could get hired.

I would absolutely PAY money to have you try that with a man that has scarified 23+ years to this place. Absolutely priceless!

If you low-lifes think your going to waltz in here and steal jobs from people that have been scarifying all of these years for those jobs you are delusional. What makes you think you have the right to take a job that was previously held by a US Airways pilot?

Bring it on low-life; you will find us to be more than up to dealing with your futile "Me the Captain - Hear Me Roar" syndrome.

This is going to a whole lot of fun!


Boeing Driver

Yes, it will be fun as long as you can put your emotions in check and decide to be professional in my cockpit. That is how I run things and just because you (pl) are angry about a perceived injustice I will not let you (pl) interfere with safety of flight. No pulling out pistols on the flight deck descending through 10k, no showing your recent up-skirt pics and certainly no racing airplanes straight into the mud while on the ground.
None of you are the CEO, you have no say on whether this airline will be integrated or not. It will happen, sooner than you probably wish but you have no control of when it happens. Every time you show up for work you need to become a professional (hard for some, I know) but there is no "I" in team. If any of you can't put differences aside (and it appears there are a few of you around here) and run a professional flight deck you will be taken in to the chief pilots office. I owe it to our passengers to keep you in line and will not hesitate doing so. Eventually, you may learn to cool your jets and live in the present instead of always looking backwards.
Today you can make a decision on the post war aftermath and the kind of person you want to be in the right seat. You can be good or you can be a problem. If you choose the latter that is your choice, but you will not be a part of my world for very long. You can talk to management all you want.
Peace.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

.... So I ask Kerr how he likes dealing with usapa and he rolls his eyes...

AWA320

I love that little bit of play acting they do for the west's benefit from time to time. They got what they wanted. They're playing all of us as the fool.

 

[nic4us]

No screams. You see the west can handle it when the people that we agree to decide make a decision.

But I think the likely situation is the judge says boys play nice. Don't make be get the stick. But Seham has made his reputation in the court house.

I think the biggest tatical error Seham made was fighting the transfer back to Wake. He gave Seham a lot of latitude. Silver I doubt is going to be that way. Seham already accused Wake of being biased and got him nowhere.

Clear,

Once again you are probably correct, neither side will pay the other, but what a history this compiles.

Not only did Seham accuse Wake of being biased, Wake took them to school and put it on the record that they could offer no evidence of their accusation.


I do have a question. Lets say judge Silver awards Polsinelli their fees for answering this frivolous rule 11 motion, what are usapa's options? Can they file more time delaying request to try and fight their rule 11 loss? or does the judge just say pay or go directly to jail? I ask because this might just be another delay tactic to postpone a ruling on the company's DJ request.

Also, any publicly available sources of usapa's brief to the Supreme Court?

 

[LSS]

Ok glad you posted this. Last night I do a flight to DTW and I have none other than senior VP Doug Kerr on board. As is the case with all senior management they come up front to talk for a while prior to push. So I ask Kerr how he likes dealing with usapa and he rolls his eyes. Now I thought this to be kinda funny seeing as how they are able to roll usapa like bugle boy cigatettes. I say to him "you have got to know that the court cant offer you indemnity against us if we sue". I was absolutly floored by his response. He stated "Yes we know that and we have no intention of using anything other than the NIC UNLESS the court tells us we have to". I ask if him if attorney Jackson was still company house council to which he responded yes. I said what did he say about this? Well without going too far "we have NO INTENTION OF USING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE NIC UNLESS THE COURT TELL US WE HAVE TO"!! I said ok Doug I hear you loud and clear on that and that's my thought as well.

AWA320

Thanks for that little tidbit... we'll make certain USAPA's attorneys receive his statement!

 

[cleardirect]

What a bunch of unbelievable low-lifes; once again - irrefutable evidence that AWA (America's Worst Airline) was the ONLY airline where they could get hired.

I would absolutely PAY money to have you try that with a man that has scarified 23+ years to this place. Absolutely priceless!

If you low-lifes think your going to waltz in here and steal jobs from people that have been scarifying all of these years for those jobs you are delusional. What makes you think you have the right to take a job that was previously held by a US Airways pilot?

Bring it on low-life; you will find us to be more than up to dealing with your futile "Me the Captain - Hear Me Roar" syndrome.

This is going to a whole lot of fun!


Boeing Driver

Easy there angry F/O.

Nobody is waltzing in a taking anything. And what makes us think that we have a right to any job? A neutral third party that both sides agreed to. It is called binding arbitration. You may have heard of it. He decided what was going to happen.

Yes, yes we have all heard of your several decade sacrifice to the us air trash airline. 23 years reserve F/O's that a shame. But not our problem or our fault.

Whine, cry, complain, yell, call names, fling poo all you want. but until you accept your agreements you will live with LOA 93 until you retire, enjoy. And try and calm down.

 

[prechilill]

Thanks for that little tidbit... we'll make certain USAPA's attorneys receive his statement!

And what are they going to do with it? Put it in a brief? Actually, your attorneys may just do that because they probably share the same level of understanding about the law as you do. Fortunately for them they got two appellate justices to misread the O'Neil case and give you guys a stay of execution.

 

[cleardirect]

Thanks for that little tidbit... we'll make certain USAPA's attorneys receive his statement!

Why? So they finally understand what they are up against? That the company is just playing with usapa and eventually when you guys have let your temper tantrum run out you will get the Nicolau. The company is just going to let you guys kick and scream like a little kid until you wear yourselves out. After the good cry you will in 2-3-4 years come to the company wipe the tears and ask please Doug can we have a contract now? Yes we will accept the Kirby, anything really just get us off of LOA 93 please.

It your lawyers have not figured out where the company is going yet they need more help then we all know. The company is playing usapa like a fiddle.

 

[767jetz]

Not me. Somehow I've managed to control my emotions enough to not get punished on any message boards. I think if more Easties were in better control of their emotions we'd all be better off. You know, like having a new contract since 2007 and stuff like that.

I agree and have said before that most of the time it is certain east posters who drag the exchange of opposing opinions into the gutter or turn it into a street fight. Most of us have controlled our emotions well, although recently we've been dishing out much of the same, not to lower ourselves to their standards but to give them a taste of their own nonsense. Sometimes you have to treat children as children.

It is no mystery why, until their recent amnesty, it was mostly (not all but mostly) east players in the corn field. They blame the old moderators, but lets face it, this board was started and run by a furloughed east pilot. They were banished due their own behavior, not a conspiracy against them. And since their work release program this forum has sunk back to the same cesspool it was before. Only now we are allowed to respond in kind. Pretty useless beyond entertainment value since nothing new has transpired in court for a long time.

Is there anyone here that is really proud of what we have become? Look back at the posts over the last few weeks. Is there anything in there except excrement? I know I’m not proud of my words and am embarrassed that I was a part of this.

It’s time to tune out and think about what this time of year means. For me it’s time to accept that the road we have taken will keep us divided for a long time and no amount of back and forth will change any minds or actions. We will live with what each side has for a long time. I can’t change that so it’s time to focus on the family.

For those I have sparred with, I mean you no harm. Just as I do with my brothers and sisters I have shared an airplane with, I wish you and your families a safe and Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and a better New Year.

I have to agree with Pi brat here. This is the same sentiment I expressed weeks ago when I took a break. We'll see how it turns out this time, but I plan to return to my former strategy of posting when I feel the need to interject my opinion or correct an egregious un-truth. (Until I am attacked, of course. Then the gloves come off again. I'm a native New Yorker and can handle myself in a street fight.)

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all. (Yeah, even the easties.)

 

[767jetz]

What a bunch of unbelievable low-lifes; once again - irrefutable evidence that AWA (America's Worst Airline) was the ONLY airline where they could get hired.

I would absolutely PAY money to have you try that with a man that has scarified 23+ years to this place. Absolutely priceless!

Wooooaaahhh! Wait a second. it is every pilot's RESPONSIBILITY to report unsafe conditions, behavior, or actions. That goes for f/o's and captains. I've had to tell a captain on more than one occasion in my career to alter his course of action or go back to the gate, get another f/o and face the music in front of the chief pilot/ professional standards/ the FAA. It's called professionalism. The captain sets the tone, and it he is captain, and a f/o demonstrates insubordination then it is his right and responsibility to take action.

Your tantrum implies that you think it would be OK for an f/o to behave in an unprofessional manor and not be subject to disciplinary action if he does. Do you think the number of years you work for a company dictates how much you are allowed to get away with? If everyone would remain professional it is a non issue. All he is saying is that there would be consequences if the person he flies with is not professional. I don't see what's wrong with that. I've had to work with scabs and I do my job the same way I do every time I'm in the cockpit. If everyone does their job without all the emotion, then there is no problem.

 

[cleardirect]

Well, considering all the public statements of Kirby and Parker... dancing around this issue every time the West pilots demand a response from them... neutrality... and all that BS... I guess, if true the mask has come off... good luck with that new contract... as it won't happen until Hell freezes over.... or the majority of the east pilots have retired or left... sorry, but that's what you've got!... also count on depos being taken... including AWA320... his identity can be found... If he had been smart, he would have kept it to himself instead of posting it on a board... but no... he, along with the majority of the west pilots that post here are so full of themselves, that they can't think beyond the end of their noses.

Merry Christmas and happy New Year to all EAST pilots!

Do you think that maybe the company will say something on camera different then what they say in conversation?

As for the "threat" of depos. Why would usapa waste their time deposing hearsay? Go directly to the source. Depose Parker, Kirby, Kerr and get the straight story under oath.

Oh wait they did that. Heminway did say under oath that it was the Nicolau award. usapa filed paperwork that stipulated that the company had accepted the Nicolau award.

My current contract or anything that usapa would give away? I will stick with the current contract thanks. Enjoy LOA 93

 

[LSS]

You can bet they will depose all the corporate officers... and probably AWA 320... we on the east have known that Parker and company favored the west... you were given an upgrade in your retirement to 10%... you were given profit sharing by that ass**** Pollock... despite that, the company chose to not give the east pay parity... (WHAT A F---ing surprise) but you will never be given a contract with the NIC by the east.

I've been a captain since before AWA Mesa was incorporated, so don't refer to me as the angry FO club... (oh I know the geniuses on the west will do so regardless!)

We're done with your group... and as has been stated countless times... we'll NEVER share a cockpit so you guys will never be pulling gear for me... FEAR??? none on the east... all you others better go look in the mirror!

 

[prechilill]

You can bet they will depose all the corporate officers... and probably AWA 320... we on the east have known that Parker and company favored the west... you were given an upgrade in your retirement to 10%... you were given profit sharing by that ass**** Pollock... despite that, the company chose to not give the east pay parity... (WHAT A F---ing surprise) but you will never be given a contract with the NIC by the east.

I've been a captain since before AWA Mesa was incorporated, so don't refer to me as the angry FO club... (oh I know the geniuses on the west will do so regardless!)

We're done with your group... and as has been stated countless times... we'll NEVER share a cockpit so you guys will never be pulling gear for me... FEAR??? none on the east... all you others better go look in the mirror!

You will be sharing a cockpit with former America West pilots, if you can't handle it the company will teach you with a few disciplinary meetings.
You do not have control of anything with this company outside of operating a USAirways aircraft how USAirways wants the aircraft to be operated. Again, if you can't handle that the company will teach you with a few disciplinary meetings.
If you are unhappy with the past you can be, don't bring it to the cockpit. If you can't do that, again the company can help you through that with a few disciplinary meetings in the chief pilot's office.
See how this works? Behave and get along, you will be fine. The job is simple, you can probably handle it once you cool your jets.
Peace out, dude.

 

[cleardirect]

You can bet they will depose all the corporate officers... and probably AWA 320... we on the east have known that Parker and company favored the west... you were given an upgrade in your retirement to 10%... you were given profit sharing by that ass**** Pollock... despite that, the company chose to not give the east pay parity... (WHAT A F---ing surprise) but you will never be given a contract with the NIC by the east.

I've been a captain since before AWA Mesa was incorporated, so don't refer to me as the angry FO club... (oh I know the geniuses on the west will do so regardless!)

We're done with your group... and as has been stated countless times... we'll NEVER share a cockpit so you guys will never be pulling gear for me... FEAR??? none on the east... all you others better go look in the mirror!

Interesting take on the situation. The west was GIVEN 10% and the west was GIVEN profit sharing. You guys I guess just love to GIVE stuff away. Not a very good negotitating tactic but you all are the experts. The company does not GIVE you parity you negotiate parity. You guys were unable to do that blame yourselves. You know the guys that you voted in.

So you have been a CAPTAIN for 25 years? Wow you must be old and ready to retire soon. Enjoy LOA 93. Ba bye. OK angry capt. better?

You assume that we want to share a cockpit with you. Incorrect! We really don't want anything to do with anything east. But you guy decided that ALPA was bad so you made this bed deal with it. The sooner you old guy leave the sooner we can get to fixing the mess you guy made. Again ba bye. Take your stuff and quit.