US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Agree wouldn't be realistic.

American is in bankruptcy and has well over 1,600 pilots on furlough. All the employees there are standing by for pension losses, wage cuts, and work rule revisions to increase productivity and reduce vacation time.

United and Delta already went through their bankruptcy and together have over 1,700 pilots on furlough.

I'm all for shaking the terrible towel like any good PIT fan to show our solidarity to getting a pay raise, but frankly I don't expect any pay raises before most of us retire, and considering the current realities and our past experiences, that ain't much to complain about.

How is that new union usapa working out for you? No contract, no raise, no improvements, same dues rate with less service.

Could have saved us all a whole of drama by just staying ALPA and separate MEC's.

 

[traderjake]

We have NO leverage to wring a contract out of the hands of the company. NONE. It is money they do not HAVE to spend.

Also nobody wants a contract, not the company, the majority of the East, or the West.

 

[Claxon]

First it was Parker and now AA? LMAO.

Back to your hole.

No, it is Parker and AA. Get between them and their cash and you are roadkill. Move2clt. Roadkill on the Billy Graham Parkway. Praise the Lord!

 

[Claxon]

How is that new union usapa working out for you? No contract, no raise, no improvements, same dues rate with less service.

Could have saved us all a whole of drama by just staying ALPA and separate MEC's.

Same for you. You are totally screwed. An eastern division new hire 190 F/O has better career prospects than you.

 

[Barrister]

ote name='Claxon' timestamp='1326244960' post='860595']
Same for you. You are totally screwed. An eastern division new hire 190 F/O has better career prospects than you.
[/quote]

That about sums it up!!

NICDOA
NPJB

 

[Move2CLT]

Same for you. You are totally screwed. An eastern division new hire 190 F/O has better career prospects than you.

Let me guess. Is it because AA is keeping you and selling off the west?

LMAO.

 

[Move2CLT]

No, it is Parker and AA. Get between them and their cash and you are roadkill. Move2clt. Roadkill on the Billy Graham Parkway. Praise the Lord!

You just described USAPA.

Now back to your hole.

 

[Phoenix]

Agree wouldn't be realistic.

American is in bankruptcy and has well over 1,600 pilots on furlough. All the employees there are standing by for pension losses, wage cuts, and work rule revisions to increase productivity and reduce vacation time.

United and Delta already went through their bankruptcy and together have over 1,700 pilots on furlough.

I'm all for shaking the terrible towel like any good PIT fan to show our solidarity to getting a pay raise, but frankly I don't expect any pay raises before most of us retire, and considering the current realities and our past experiences, that ain't much to complain about.

How is that new union usapa working out for you? No contract, no raise, no improvements, same dues rate with less service.

Like I said, not much to complain about, which of course in the context was an obvious use of litotes.

Could have saved us all a whole of drama by just staying ALPA and separate MEC's.

Sure, if the majority had asked to retain the grand services, allegiance, and undying benevolence of ALPA, the sun would yet never set on that great empire. To ALPA's bitter chagrin, democracy over at the NMB proved out of their reach.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

When you say ALPA, do you mean your MEC?

Otherwise, you're once again making excuses and blaming others. That is unless your nickname for Chip is "ALPA".

You know what, lets start a list of people that have caused you guys your grief.


Its not our [The East's] fault! We blame _____________ for our woes.

1. ALPA National (sold us out)
2. Nicolau (old and senile)
3. Chip (influential talker)
4. Judge Silver (western hick judge)
5. Kasher (LOA 93 - he was ill and unable to render a proper decision)
6. Judge Conrad (did not truly understand our effort)
7. Judge Wake (western hick judge)
8. Seham (found out he sucked and lied to us)
9. Cleary (starting to see he's kind of nuts)
10. AoL (ALPA secretly feeding money to them)
11. Senior Captains (sold us out)
12. Angry FOs (holding us hostage)
13. Parker (won't do what we tell him to do)
14. Bular (in it for himself)
15. Company (anti-East and giving our flying to the west)
16. Move2CLT (his truth is starting to set us free)



Breeze, if I've missed someone, please feel free to add to the list.

You forgot the Great Pumpkin! He never seems to show up with any wins for the East...

 

[Reed Richards]

Until AMR merger. USAPA agrees to all 777 time to AA for 20 years, they keep all their 76 flying and 75 for 15 years. DOH agreed on. No Nicolau. Western is not going to like this, but reality sux sometimes. This is what happens when you hang on to a stupid dream too long. AA will agree because the junior western headed off at the pass, and the eastern old timers leave on their own accord. This, is the end of the stalemate. It will happen. Lenidas is just a distant and costly memory.

Nothing wrong with having these fantasy football discussions. Nothing is binding here on the forum, and it sure beats “who saved who” and “how bad/good is the NIC!”

I remember posting something similar a while back. To expand on your logical approach..I agree (again..fantasy) no U pilots on existing AMR 777’s for 20 years. As to other widebody flying, we can predict the exact day an East pilot would have upgraded to widebody C/O on our 18 or so aircraft based on age 65 retirements. On that day we slip in DOH on any other widebody flying. Any new aircraft, of any kind (read “not on the property” at the time of the actual merger) go straight DOH in all cases, including 777’s newly delivered.

Narrowbody aircraft have fences and restrictions to protect guys already checked out in base..but after that it is straight DOH. Duration of fences and restrictions to be negotiated.

Westies can bargain on their own based on the number of widebodies they have on their property. Should be a quick session.

Not the best of situations, but sure beats trying to claim seats and attrition that were not ours anyway.

RR

 

[Move2CLT]

You easties do realize the Nic will be used in the next merger, right?

 

[cleardirect]

Nothing wrong with having these fantasy football discussions. Nothing is binding here on the forum, and it sure beats “who saved who” and “how bad/good is the NIC!”

I remember posting something similar a while back. To expand on your logical approach..I agree (again..fantasy) no U pilots on existing AMR 777’s for 20 years. As to other widebody flying, we can predict the exact day an East pilot would have upgraded to widebody C/O on our 18 or so aircraft based on age 65 retirements. On that day we slip in DOH on any other widebody flying. Any new aircraft, of any kind (read “not on the property” at the time of the actual merger) go straight DOH in all cases, including 777’s newly delivered.

Narrowbody aircraft have fences and restrictions to protect guys already checked out in base..but after that it is straight DOH. Duration of fences and restrictions to be negotiated.

Westies can bargain on their own based on the number of widebodies they have on their property. Should be a quick session.

Not the best of situations, but sure beats trying to claim seats and attrition that were not ours anyway.

RR

I have asked before but still have not gotten an answer.

Why would AA ever accept DOH?

The junior captain was hired in 1992. 90% of the east list was hired before 1990. That would place a majority of east F/O's senior to AA captains and all of the AA F/O's. Fences or not fences AA is not going to accept that.

As far as westies bargaining for ourselves. I wish we could we would end up with a much batter deal but usapa makes that impossible. Beside do you really think that AA is going to care about the tiny number of trashed out 767's you guy have or the antique 330's?

If we merge look for a relative seniority list using the Nicolau with WB fences protecting the top 3500 AA pilots.

 

[AAviator]

You guys crack me up.

You're on youtube you know! Watch the whole thing!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TugslL45aXk

While you're deciding how to integrate your pipe dream merger with AA, don't forget AA has 42 787-900's coming in 2014. They have a MGTOW 42K lbs higher than the A330-300's.

The 773' start in about 10 months, and there are 6 or 7 more 772's coming in 2013 to add to the 47 already on the property. All of which are larger than the 330-300.

That 3500 number someone thew out there may be close.... 0% chance of a merger anyway....


🙂

 

[BoeingBoy]

While you're deciding how to integrate your pipe dream merger with AA, don't forget AA has 42 787-900's coming in 2014. They have a MGTOW 42K lbs higher than the A330-300's.

The 773' start in about 10 months, and there are 6 or 7 more 772's coming in 2013 to add to the 47 already on the property. All of which are larger than the 330-300.

Why do you think the suggested fence was for only the 777's already on the property? Those senior easties are looking for 777/787 manuals already...

Jim

 

[nic4us]

You easties do realize the Nic will be used in the next merger, right?

Rhetorical question, right??

Most east posters on this board do not even realize the company they worked for went bye bye in 2005.

Lets say a merger did happen, and usapa went in with Reeds DOH fantasy. How long do you think it would take for the West pilot class to sue the new corporation for collusion in a hybrid DFR? My guess is that the threat of that suit would put the kibosh on any transaction prior to it proceeding.

One very inexpensive letter from Polsinelli to the merging companies respective board of directors and the prospective future union, explaining the minimum requirement that the Nic be used for pilot integration, would ensure all the players are aware of the impending disaster they would face using anything other than the Nic.


This getting old, lets change the subject. How close are the flight attendants to getting a contract? I hear they are getting close, and once ratified the f/a's will be able to bid system wide. Further, that they are getting PBS and are no longer going to match pilot schedules. So, on say a 4 day pairing, West pilots will likely encounter former East f/a's and east pilots will fly with former West f/a's.