US Pilots Labor Discussion

[usfliboi]

Have you looked at the performance numbers?? How dare you infer this group has done anything other than fly these aircraft safely, efficiently, and on time, IN SPITE of the fact that we work under a bankruptcy contract with more days and less vacation, less pay, and worse conditions than anytime in our history on this airline. You are a real piece of work. The perfect management mouthpiece. Why don't you get off your knees and take a look around.

Driver <_<

Nobody and I mean NOBODY believes that there wasnt a intentional slow down.... I witnessed it many times. My pay has gone down too now that those kids have stopped lol 🙂

 

[aquagreen73s]

How about that letter to East pilots re: identity theft. Looks like another hand grenade blew up in USAPA's pants.

 

[Phoenix]

Sorry Andy, you are probably doomed now, whoever you are.

Next up. Andy is expecting to move up in the polls following endorsements from Barney Fife, and Pee Wee Herman, rounding out the perfect trifecta.

 

[Phoenix]

Driver,

As an angry pilot would you care to identify your self? I bet you don't have the courage.

USA320Pilot

You are just pissed that Pizza Hut answered when you called my number that I PMed to you. But what I really want to know is did you keep calling them, thinking you just kept mis-dialling me... and did you finally just give in and buy a peperoni special.

I'm so afraid of you now that you bought a pizza you never wanted... Warning to self, never cross a bellicose pilot who has bravado and a stale peperoni pizza.

 

[USA320Pilot]

You are just pissed that Pizza Hut answered when you called my number that I PMed to you. But what I really want to know is did you keep calling them, thinking you just kept mis-dialling me... and did you finally just give in and buy a peperoni special.

I'm so afraid of you now that you bought a pizza you never wanted... Warning to self, never cross a bellicose pilot who has bravado and a stale peperoni pizza.

Phoenix,

I'm not angry and I choose to focus on what I have in my life versus what I don't. Furthermore, I don't ever remember a phone number being PM'ed to me.

USA320Pilot

 

[Phoenix]

Phoenix,

I'm not angry and I choose to focus on what I have in my life versus what I don't. ..

Good for you. You have USAPA and not ALPA. Focus.

..Furthermore, I don't ever remember a phone number being PM'ed to me.

USA320Pilot

That's understandable. A well satisfied stomach after a good peperoni deep dish can make even the young mind forget a thing or two.

 

[traderjake]

Nothing wrong with having these fantasy football discussions.

It is wrong when you make decisions based on a fantasy like rewritting the seniority list.

You might try engaging the real world.

Now we know why you picked that avatar.

 

[fatherabraham]

You might try engaging the real world

Trader,

Here's a rhetorical question for anyone to comment on. No need to discuss alpa policy at time, just an ethics question.

Would it have been " ethical " to slot relative seniority in psa/aaa merger ?

Please tell us all where YOU would be on Nic list had that happened.

FA

 

[traderjake]

Would it have been " ethical " to slot relative seniority in psa/aaa merger ?

Please tell us all where YOU would be on Nic list had that happened.

The "fairest" way would have been to slot by equipement and status (which can be different from relative seniority).

Relative seniority would have been more fair than DOH.

I would be more senior than I am now as would all the PI Captains that were made junior to PSA F/Os.

When I accuse USAPA supporters of being "unethical" it's for reneging on a mutually agreeded upon arbitration process, not because they pursued DOH. Pursuing DOH was just stupid because it is obviouly fundamentally unfair and was in conflict with the ALPA merger policy.

 

[nic4us]

I see this degenerated quickly into you and Jim inserting what you think are my "intentions" into an argument about POSSIBLE starting points in merger talks that probably will never happen. You are so full of piss and vinegar about not getting the NIC you refuse to believe the world could actually continue to turn (and other mergers occur) without it happening.

I should have known better.

RR

You should have known better regarding a lot of issues.

for instance, what is your take on "final and binding"?

 

[Phoenix]

The majority of the East decided it was ok to renege on a mutually agreed upon arbitration process because they didn't like the result even though the result was basically the same as the arbitration before it and the two after it.

"Loyalty above all else... except honor." Lieutenant Vincent Hardy from the movie Striking Distance

...

When I accuse USAPA supporters of being "unethical" it's for reneging on a mutually agreeded upon arbitration process, not because they pursued DOH. Pursuing DOH was just stupid because it is obviouly fundamentally unfair and was in conflict with the ALPA merger policy.

It may surprise you but I can actually appreciate that your position regarding what must be done is based upon being honorable. It is a shame that many of those who disagree cannot honestly ascribe to each other a rational basis for being honorable, despite the obvious disagreement concerning the premises of the positions.

The East did not renege on a mutually agreed arbitration process. They ejected a union that refused to take responsibility to intervene in an outsourced failure of its own creation. A majority of pilots expected that ALPA would honor its responsibility to ensure the process was followed according to the terms of its own policy. It is self-evident that a majority was unpersuaded that it did. Prater and many other ALPA pilots freely proclaimed that the the result was problematic or unworkable, but ultimately chose to declare themselves slaves to their own imperfect process, rather than to accept that they were indeed responsible regardless of the fact that they attempted to shirk that responsibility by delegating authority to what amounted to nothing more than an employee who went astray.

Some folks hold the premise that a single union over pilots ultimately has the responsibility to establish an ISL that can be ratified. Some don't.

 

[Phoenix]

You should have known better regarding a lot of issues.

for instance, what is your take on "final and binding"?

What's your take on "internal union dispute"?

"Tastes great!"

over to you...

 

[nic4us]

John should be thankful. I wonder if any other manager that gave employee S.S#s to an LLC would only get a month off. I doubt it, they probably would have been fired.

I agree about John's status. Of the three, he was the only one I thought might have a problem if the company decided to use him as a fall guy.

Problem for the company though, if they fired John for his part in this issue, what do you do with the dual unionist who stole West pilots info from ALPA or where ever Bradfod and Co. got it, and how exactly did usapa know the SS numbers were encrypted in the file?

 

[Pi brat]

For those East pilots who believe the Nicolau Award II is a career killer, who were never furloughed, can you tell me why the Salamatt Report indicated the most junior pilot who could upgrade stand-alone (Jim Zeigler) would have no more than a two-year upgrade delay due to the Nicolau Award?

Click here to read the report.

Granted, with the age 65 retirement rule change -- this new rule extended stagnation and created about an additional five-year delay. But, at the time of the report ALPA & USAPA's consultant Rikk Salamatt indicated Zeigler would see his Captain uprade delayed from 2015 to 2017 with more senior East pilots receiving even less of a upgrade delay.

Therefore, if Salamat''s report is accurate at the time it was written, how can the Nicolau Award II be a carrer killer for those pilots never furloughed?

Thank you for providing the link for this. When west guys talk about "only a 2 year delay" I thought there was another report out there. To pull just the 2 year delay out and ignore the rest of the report is disingenuous. The report was not produce to show "just a 2 year delay", it was produced to show all the inequities of the award. As another poster said, think of the holidays, weekends, and delay to the highest paying positions. Plus, for you, already a captain to tell another guy that has 20+ years, "it's just 2 more years", well...............

Is that whole report in AOL's brochure #4, or whatever # we are up to?

 

[nic4us]

What's your take on "internal union dispute"?

"Tastes great!"

over to you...

I think "internal union disputes" are often resolved through legal process, such as we already mention "binding arbitration".

What is your take on a "unions duty of fair representation".

I'll go ahead and give you mine before you make the "less filing" post.

A unions duty of fair representation is something the little union busting lawyer Scabford hired to found usapa completely disregarded when he sold the gullible east pilots on their seniority theft scandal.