US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

W/o being specific, please state within 50 how many westies were placed below you on Nic list assuming you got relative position or a even worse deal like Nic in psa/aaa merge?

I have no idea. You know who I am, feel free to tell us.

What I do know is that the West pilot next to me on the NIC list was a middle blockholding 320 F/O just like me.

 

[cleardirect]

Uh, no. I never said that, so you are wrong...........again. I told everyone that we should not convict the accused before we knew the FACTS.

Retraction please.

I stand corrected. You are it was Luv, BS and end of ALPA. Kind of hard to tell you guys apart.

 

[USA320Pilot]

What's up on the Line (Contract Negotiation Status): January 11, 2012

Contract Negotiation Status

Rumors abound about the NMB parking our contract talks. This "What's Up On The Line" gets the straight story regarding the status of contract negotiations.

January 11, 2012

The next mediated negotiation session is scheduled for the week of January 23, 2012. There are currently no meetings scheduled beyond January, however at the conclusion of the January meeting, the Mediator, in conjunction with the NMB, will determine if and when any future sessions are warranted. While there may be some speculation that the NMB will recess negotiations, commonly referred to as being ‘parked’, no decision has been made. Since a recess only benefits the Company by extending the time that they keep your pay and benefits at the bottom of the industry, the NAC is doing everything possible to prevent this from occurring. However, at this point, further NMB mediated sessions for subsequent months appear to be unlikely.

Remember, the timeline is controlled by the mediator and the NMB. They decide if there is an impasse and whether or not an impasse warrants a release. Unfortunately, we have very little control if or when a release occurs. Additionally, the NMB reports directly to President Obama. Given that, we are approaching an election year; the question is whether or not the NMB is likely to release anyone that may have negative political implications.

Many pilots have also asked when we will be released to a cooling off period and they question why we haven’t already asked to be released. Well, we have asked. Unfortunately, the NMB insists that in order to be released the number of open issues must be reduced to a core few. Well, we’ve tried to do that. Understand however, the Company has refused to move one inch off of the Kirby proposal. So, if we follow the NMB’s direction, understanding that the Company refuses to move on anything, then the only way we can possibly get to a release is to capitulate on most of the other issues which include: Bottom of the industry pay, bottom of the industry DC contribution, 99/108 hour pay cap, bottom of the industry work rules, no retro/parity pay, loss of medical benefits while on LTD, eliminate most scope protections, vacation that tops out at year 15 vs. an industry standard of 30, excessive LTD offsets, bottom of the industry sick. Ask yourself, are you willing to give up on many of these provisions? If so, which ones?

The NAC follows the direction of the BPR and they have been abundantly clear – no concessions and industry standard. Until we receive direction to the contrary, this is the direction we are mandated to follow.

Finally, it has become obvious to anyone associated with this negotiation that it doesn’t matter who is sitting across the table from the Company; they have no interest in reaching a deal. If anyone tells you otherwise they either have another agenda or they’re not being truthful. It’s in the Company’s best interest, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, to delay this process as long as possible. It’s that simple. Unfortunately, it now appears that the NMB is becoming sympathetic to this principle.

 

[Reed Richards]

It is wrong when you make decisions based on a fantasy like rewritting the seniority list.

You might try engaging the real world.

Now we know why you picked that avatar.

Not trying to "rewrite" any list. There are currently two intact pilot seniority lists at LCC, each attached to separate ops and separate contracts. I have ("had" since we will never have a joint contract) a vested interest in the creation of a combined list to be put out for ratification. The previous agent failed, so here we are. Again, not going to happen now anyway.

As to "engaging" the real world, I was absent for 3 years from this forum doing just that.

This is only entertainment and venting here for me. I enjoy the give and take. I also know how real change occurs. None of it comes from web board postings.

I actually need this job, obviously so do you. But you seem to be in some sort of pain, and unable to engage….. must be related to your inability to upgrade.

RR

 

[Pi brat]

I stand corrected. You are it was Luv, BS and end of ALPA. Kind of hard to tell you guys apart.

What a magnanimous apology. Says a lot about you.

I guess it is hard to tell the difference if you don't try.

 

[traderjake]

I actually need this job, obviously so do you. But you seem to be in some sort of pain, and unable to engage….. must be related to your inability to upgrade.

More of RR's fantasy world.

I was a Metrojet Captain in 2001 and a 320 Captain in 2002.

I need this job too, but I'm willing to bet I need it less than my critics.

 

[Move2CLT]

Sorry Boo Boo, not biting at your very stale bait

FA

Stale bait my ass. You're not answering because you don't like undercutting your own argument.

WWJD.

 

[Reed Richards]

What's up on the Line (Contract Negotiation Status): January 11, 2012

Contract Negotiation Status

Rumors abound about the NMB parking our contract talks. This "What's Up On The Line" gets the straight story regarding the status of contract negotiations.

January 11, 2012

The next mediated negotiation session is scheduled for the week of January 23, 2012. There are currently no meetings scheduled beyond January, however at the conclusion of the January meeting, the Mediator, in conjunction with the NMB, will determine if and when any future sessions are warranted. While there may be some speculation that the NMB will recess negotiations, commonly referred to as being ‘parked’, no decision has been made. Since a recess only benefits the Company by extending the time that they keep your pay and benefits at the bottom of the industry, the NAC is doing everything possible to prevent this from occurring. However, at this point, further NMB mediated sessions for subsequent months appear to be unlikely.

Remember, the timeline is controlled by the mediator and the NMB. They decide if there is an impasse and whether or not an impasse warrants a release. Unfortunately, we have very little control if or when a release occurs. Additionally, the NMB reports directly to President Obama. Given that, we are approaching an election year; the question is whether or not the NMB is likely to release anyone that may have negative political implications.

Many pilots have also asked when we will be released to a cooling off period and they question why we haven’t already asked to be released. Well, we have asked. Unfortunately, the NMB insists that in order to be released the number of open issues must be reduced to a core few. Well, we’ve tried to do that. Understand however, the Company has refused to move one inch off of the Kirby proposal. So, if we follow the NMB’s direction, understanding that the Company refuses to move on anything, then the only way we can possibly get to a release is to capitulate on most of the other issues which include: Bottom of the industry pay, bottom of the industry DC contribution, 99/108 hour pay cap, bottom of the industry work rules, no retro/parity pay, loss of medical benefits while on LTD, eliminate most scope protections, vacation that tops out at year 15 vs. an industry standard of 30, excessive LTD offsets, bottom of the industry sick. Ask yourself, are you willing to give up on many of these provisions? If so, which ones?

The NAC follows the direction of the BPR and they have been abundantly clear – no concessions and industry standard. Until we receive direction to the contrary, this is the direction we are mandated to follow.

Finally, it has become obvious to anyone associated with this negotiation that it doesn’t matter who is sitting across the table from the Company; they have no interest in reaching a deal. If anyone tells you otherwise they either have another agenda or they’re not being truthful. It’s in the Company’s best interest, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars, to delay this process as long as possible. It’s that simple. Unfortunately, it now appears that the NMB is becoming sympathetic to this principle.

First, maybe Paul DiOrio (NAC Chair) should find out just what "industry standard" pay really is. I think he should be briefing the BPR on that, not visa-versa. Unfortunately, the Company knows, and the Mediator knows. Paul does not.

I already missed my prediction of being "parked by Christmas." Fail. The question I cannot answer is if the Mediator (and the Company?) might keep things alive long enough to get some competent leadership in the room via the ejection of our current top two Officers? I won't predict again, don't want to ruin my highly successful prediction percentage.

My advice to Paul for his last session is to change his ways...show up clean shaven, show up prepared, and show up with the professional negotiator, as per the CBL. Might as well get it right on his last trip to the room as NAC Chairman.

RR

 

[Move2CLT]

First, maybe Paul DiOrio (NAC Chair) should find out just what "industry standard" pay really is. I think he should be briefing the BPR on that, not visa-versa. Unfortunately, the Company knows, and the Mediator knows. Paul does not.

I already missed my prediction of being "parked by Christmas." Fail. The question I cannot answer is if the Mediator (and the Company?) might keep things alive long enough to get some competent leadership in the room via the ejection of our current top two Officers? I won't predict again, don't want to ruin my highly successful prediction percentage.

My advice to Paul for his last session is to change his ways...show up clean shaven, show up prepared, and show up with the professional negotiator, as per the CBL. Might as well get it right on his last trip to the room as NAC Chairman.

RR

Just what does the professional negotiator do again?

 

[fatherabraham]

I have no idea. You know who I am, feel free to tell us.

What I do know is that the West pilot next to me on the NIC list was middle blockholding 320 F/O just like me.

Trader,

Way too lazy to look it up. Nor do I recall your name.
Have no idea of your relative position at psa ( @ merge ), hence I would not have asked.
Would like to determine what a Nic scenario at psa/aaa merge ( aprox ) and then figured per Nic would have placed ya. Methinks you would have a different view if that had happened.
How about you share that and I will do the guesstimate .
FA

 

[Reed Richards]

Just what does the professional negotiator do again?

For all intents Move, we don't have one. I know what we wanted him to do early on. That was a fantasy unfulfilled. Paul thought he was better at the job, thus over 3 years of failed negotiations.

Theuer picked up on our discontent and included the term "professional negotiator" in his comm. Guess Fieser continued that as a tribute to Scott's previous open and unbiased comm.

RR

 

[Move2CLT]

Trader,

Way too lazy to look it up. Nor do I recall your name.
Have no idea of your relative position at psa ( @ merge ), hence I would not have asked.
How about you share that and I will do the guesstimate .
FA

Damn, there's that relative seniority thing again.

 

[fifidriver]

Have you looked at the performance numbers?? How dare you infer this group has done anything other than fly these aircraft safely, efficiently, and on time, IN SPITE of the fact that we work under a bankruptcy contract with more days and less vacation, less pay, and worse conditions than anytime in our history on this airline. You are a real piece of work. The perfect management mouthpiece. Why don't you get off your knees and take a look around.

Driver <_<

I'm sure you mean "since the illegal job action and the resultant temporary, now permanent injunction"

 

[traderjake]

Way too lazy to look it up. Nor do I recall your name.
Have no idea of your relative position at psa ( @ merge ), hence I would not have asked.
Would like to determine what a Nic scenario at psa/aaa merge ( aprox ) and then figured per Nic would have placed ya. Methinks you would have a different view if that had happened.

I was a Piedmont pilot.

PM me and I'll give you my name.

 

[Phoenix]

Not trying to "rewrite" any list. There are currently two intact pilot seniority lists at LCC, each attached to separate ops and separate contracts. I have ("had" since we will never have a joint contract) a vested interest in the creation of a combined list to be put out for ratification. The previous agent failed, so here we are. Again, not going to happen now anyway.

As to "engaging" the real world, I was absent for 3 years from this forum doing just that.

This is only entertainment and venting here for me. I enjoy the give and take. I also know how real change occurs. None of it comes from web board postings.

I actually need this job, obviously so do you. But you seem to be in some sort of pain, and unable to engage….. must be related to your inability to upgrade.

RR

Perhaps his pain is related to his upgrade but I'll take him at his word that it isn't. I think the reason is a bit more deep seated and personal.

The one thing that gets under an ALPAphile's skin more than anything else is for a bunch of line pilot putz to believe that they don't work for the union leaders, but that the union leaders work for them.