US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

There are only two ratified lists on the property. The other was on a piece of scratch paper that was wadded up and thrown away in April of 08.

I must really occupy your thoughts, because I have only been here since Sep 09. Just seems like 4 years to you. Prior to that I had no postings on these boards, under any moniker for over 3 years.

I am honored you consider me a "founder," but in reality my term as an ALPA rep had more effect on where we are right now.

RR

Ratified how exactly? Do you mean the two list exist as a product of the bargaining agreements. The same two bargaining agreements or contracts that specify ALPA merger policy as the means of any integration in an ALPA/ALPA merger? Hope that is what you mean, because that is why the Nic is it!

Thrown away in April 2008? Funny, in that weird usapian way of not having a clue or of being in complete denial of the position you are in. To this day, the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC, and the only list that can be used in a joint contract or systemwide transactions such as a merger.


Okay, I see you registered in 2009. I made an incorrect assumption based on the timeline I joined the board, mea culpa. But, if you were "absent" for three years, and you joined in 2009, this being 2012, you would still not be here! This does however beg another question.

How exactly did your term as an ALPA rep have more effect? Were you involved with the dual unionist tactics that got east reps recalled by Herndon? Did you take West info from ALPA? Did you use ALPA resources to further a usapa agenda in any manner?

 

[usfliboi]

Ratified how exactly? Do you mean the two list exist as a product of the bargaining agreements. The same two bargaining agreements or contracts that specify ALPA merger policy as the means of any integration in an ALPA/ALPA merger? Hope that is what you mean, because that is why the Nic is it!

Thrown away in April 2008? Funny, in that weird usapian way of not having a clue or of being in complete denial of the position you are in. To this day, the Nic is the only accepted system seniority list at LCC, and the only list that can be used in a joint contract or systemwide transactions such as a merger.


Okay, I see you registered in 2009. I made an incorrect assumption based on the timeline I joined the board, mea culpa. But, if you were "absent" for three years, and you joined in 2009, this being 2012, you would still not be here! This does however beg another question.

How exactly did your term as an ALPA rep have more effect? Were you involved with the dual unionist tactics that got east reps recalled by Herndon? Did you take West info from ALPA? Did you use ALPA resources to further a usapa agenda in any manner?

YAWN!

 

[cleardirect]

Just saw your post you were a former PI pilot. The above post now really shows your hypocrisy.

The AAA/PSA seniority merger was completed before you ever came on the property under ALPA Merger Policy, and was embodied in a contract ratified by both AAA pilots and PSA pilots. Yet you claim that policy was "unfair" as you would have been more senior in the following merger since it did not use "relative seniority." Then your own merger comes along and relative seniority is again shown the door and DOH, straight DOH prevails, arbitrated and then ratified by both PI and AAA. Now your only argument left is the obviously unique and quite screwed up merger of the Shuttle pilots..a very, very small group whose actual DOH could be argued from here to eternity ...and did not go straight DOH?

AAA/PSA straight DOH under ALPA. AAA/PI straight DOH under ALPA. And yet we at USAPA are unethical for pursuing the same in the next real merger?

Give me a break. I think we see the real issue here..you actually don’t like ALPA merger policy..it “screwed” you in both the PSA and the PI mergers with AAA.

RR

Yes usapa is unethical because of the way you are trying to impose DOH. The other mergers went through the process an arbitrator looked at the facts and developed as list. In usapa's case an arbitrator developed a list and the east pilots rejected it. Using the force of the majority is trying to impose a DOH list on a smaller group.

 

[nic4us]

YAWN!

Well, after you scratch your private parts and get that cup of coffee, you might realize that usapa does not have a monopoly on playing for termination stakes, RICO lawsuits and the NLRB.

Perhaps your lackadaisical attitude will get a nice slap in the face when you are on the recieving end of assessments levied against all the good union pilots who used the NMB rules to scab their co-workers jobs.

Maybe we should start a pool. Who will lose their job first? Ferguson or Hogg.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

USAPA has now voluntarily agreed that the preliminary injunction should become permanent, pilots are now receiving 30-day suspensions without pay for violating company policy & the injunction, and according to USAPA "further NMB mediated sessions for subsequent months appear to be unlikely" or should we say negotiations are likely to parked for months by the NMB. For those pilots that support USAPA what's your opinion of your union?

And, should NAC members Paul DiOrio and Dean Colello go back to the line or continue to sit at home and receive Full FPL & their Stipend since they will have not met with the Company/Mediator for 6 weeks from the beginning of December until the end of January?

USA320Pilot

ALPA is in a world of hurt right now.

http://www.delta-pilots.org/dpa-news/2012/1/9/twa-lawsuit-update-and-kitty-hawk-exposed.html

TWA Lawsuit Update and Kitty Hawk Exposed

 

[cleardirect]

ALPA is in a world of hurt right now.

http://www.delta-pilots.org/dpa-news/2012/1/9/twa-lawsuit-update-and-kitty-hawk-exposed.html

TWA Lawsuit Update and Kitty Hawk Exposed

Looks like ALPA is not the only group that uses fear to get what they want. DAP using fear that a huge settlement is just around the corner better hurry and get those cars in. They have been stuck at 4000 for months.

What are they worried about usapa has shown the way. Mediation settlements and arbitration mean nothing. Even if ALPA does lose and Delta is still ALPA just change unions and that obligation goes away. Have these guys call Seham he will explain it all to them.

Oh wait. Seham is the DPA lawyer. Never mind they already have the play book. But again if they have the play book why the panic to get out? Could it be the Seham's theory is wrong?

 

[USA320Pilot]

ALPA is in a world of hurt right now.

http://www.delta-pilots.org/dpa-news/2012/1/9/twa-lawsuit-update-and-kitty-hawk-exposed.html

TWA Lawsuit Update and Kitty Hawk Exposed

ALPA has DFR Insurance. USAPA has none. In fact, except for ALPA, no US union has any. ALPA has a wholly owned insurance entity which is underwritten by a Lloyd’s syndicate to protect the union in the event of an adverse DFR decision. If USAPA must face a financial DFR decision or settlement it will likely face bankruptcy or at least a significant assessment of the membership. Additionally, while represented by ALPA, just like the MCF, pilots paid for this protection and now US Airways' pilots enjoy none of its protections.

 

[john john]

ALPA has DFR Insurance.

"ALPA will appeal this verdict for years to come" and "ALPA has insurance for that".

This decision to go to mediation ENSURES ALPA will be paying our dues dollars in a very large quantity to the 2,300 pilots they failed to represent. The weak excuse of "delay through appeal" is no longer valid.

The only other question that remains revolves around the other common answer, "ALPA has insurance for that." In an effort to understand exactly how much capability ALPA has to pay damages and settlements, DPA has exposed ALPA's wholly owned subsidiary, Kitty Hawk Insurance Company. We discovered very disturbing information about the history of ALPA's risk problem and have developed a likely template for what will occur next. ALL CONCERNED PILOTS, BOTH DPA AND ALPA SUPPORTERS, SHOULD CAREFULLY READ EACH ONE OF THE 8 LINKS BELOW IN THE ORDER PRESENTED!

 

[Claxon]

You will see.

What part about making a binding agreement do you not get? If the company made a binding agreement with you and broke it, you would be justifiably right in your anger.

I love the faux cognitive dissonance you all rely on to keep up your fantasy over there.

Disgusting Franke Air went to Australia with it's pursuit of money. Did you back Franke retiree? What kind of ethics did you and your disgusting AWA exhibit?

 

[Move2CLT]

Disgusting Franke Air went to Australia with it's pursuit of money. Did you back Franke retiree? What kind of ethics did you and your disgusting AWA exhibit?

How are those scabs in USAPA doing?

 

[Move2CLT]

The DJ is only about delay.

After years of lying about not getting involved in the seniority process, Parker saw the end to litigation, and was not ready to deal yet. As I have said here before, the Company was brilliant in filing the DJ, it gave them control of the timeline for possibly years, and up to now they can drop the proceedings if they need to.

The worst thing that could happen for the Company is for Silver to go off the reservation and tell them they have to use NIC. Only in that case do they now become passengers, having to wait years for our trip to the Ninth.

If anything, a ruling the NIC has to be used seals the deal, and reaffirms what I have been saying...we will never have a joint contract here.

RR

Nonsense. The DJ is there to put closure on the use of Nic. The company was hoping the 9th would do it. Failing that, they took it into their own hands by filing the DJ. With it they'll have the legal cover to use the Nic and prevent you easties from being release over S22.

Delay has nothing to do with it. As you can see, S22 isn't holding up anything now do you argument is asinine.

With the DJ and injunction, USAPA's quest for DOH or compromise is dead and buried with no chance of ever seeing the light of a negotiating table.

Looks like LOA93 for you guys for a long time.

 

[cleardirect]

"ALPA will appeal this verdict for years to come" and "ALPA has insurance for that".

This decision to go to mediation ENSURES ALPA will be paying our dues dollars in a very large quantity to the 2,300 pilots they failed to represent. The weak excuse of "delay through appeal" is no longer valid.

The only other question that remains revolves around the other common answer, "ALPA has insurance for that." In an effort to understand exactly how much capability ALPA has to pay damages and settlements, DPA has exposed ALPA's wholly owned subsidiary, Kitty Hawk Insurance Company. We discovered very disturbing information about the history of ALPA's risk problem and have developed a likely template for what will occur next. ALL CONCERNED PILOTS, BOTH DPA AND ALPA SUPPORTERS, SHOULD CAREFULLY READ EACH ONE OF THE 8 LINKS BELOW IN THE ORDER PRESENTED!

ALPA lost that DFR case. If ALPA ends up paying large amounts of money what to you guys think that does to usapa's case of not representing the west pilots fairly?

The TWA case was about seniority and the majority dictating terms. DFR II will cite the TWA v ALPA case up front.

 

[Move2CLT]

"ALPA will appeal this verdict for years to come" and "ALPA has insurance for that".

This decision to go to mediation ENSURES ALPA will be paying our dues dollars in a very large quantity to the 2,300 pilots they failed to represent. The weak excuse of "delay through appeal" is no longer valid.

And LOA93 is a winner, right?

Back to your hole.

 

[Phoenix]

Fairness is a subjective opinion of little use here. Compelling an group to abide by their legal obligations is the issue.

I won't encourage you to accept the results of votes.

 

[prechilill]

I won't encourage you to accept the results of votes.

Pol Pot? Hello.